so what? Hobbs was faster in high school than all of the NAU guys. Nur and Grijalva were nobodys in high school and they just made the World Championship final with Grijalva almost grabbing a medal. Woody just broke an American record and is poised to contend for a medal.
Hobbs didn't even make it to Worlds and he wasn't close. All he had to do was run close to his PR and he would have made it. Ferlic was bad last year too. Ferlic ran slower in 2022 than he did in 2016. That's bad coaching.
Ferlic doesnt exactly prove your point. Poor choice. Did mason run worse in 20-21 than 2016? Uhh no. He set PBs by the bag full in 21 (basically all his PBs across all distances). And a few in 22!
VNTC seems to be expanding rapidly to me. We shall see the fruits of their labor this season with Flanagan/Hobbs/Ferlic/Beadlescomb et al? I think there are too many data points pointing to great coaching over the years.
Don't forget that Ronnie trained Greg Meyer (1983 Boston Marathon Champ); Brian Diemer (Bronze Steeple @ 1984 Olympics); Kevin Sullivan (4x Olympian, Canadian 1500 record holder), Nick Willis (4x Olympian, Silver, Bronze 1500), Nate Brannen (2x Olympian, Canadian 1000 meter record holder). So, yeah. I'd say he knows what he's doing
so what? Hobbs was faster in high school than all of the NAU guys. Nur and Grijalva were nobodys in high school and they just made the World Championship final with Grijalva almost grabbing a medal. Woody just broke an American record and is poised to contend for a medal.
Hobbs didn't even make it to Worlds and he wasn't close. All he had to do was run close to his PR and he would have made it. Ferlic was bad last year too. Ferlic ran slower in 2022 than he did in 2016. That's bad coaching.
Ferlic doesnt exactly prove your point. Poor choice. Did mason run worse in 20-21 than 2016? Uhh no. He set PBs by the bag full in 21 (basically all his PBs across all distances). And a few in 22!
VNTC seems to be expanding rapidly to me. We shall see the fruits of their labor this season with Flanagan/Hobbs/Ferlic/Beadlescomb et al? I think there are too many data points pointing to great coaching over the years.
Ferlic ran 8:21 in the steeplechase in 2016. He ran 8:18 in 2021 and 8:23 in 2022. The shoes alone will make at least a 5 second improvement. So he has gotten worse. He only made the team in 2021 because it was the weakest USA squad in decades for the steeplechase. No Jager, Cabral is old and washed up, etc.
It doesn't matter who you are. If you're a college sophomore and you're that much slower in your main event than you were in high school something is wrong. He's already raced decently 4 times and now he's sick. Take a week or two off. You don't get bonus points for a PW.
This also looks bad with so many other collegiates currently going under 4.
TLDR: Rest & Recharge
Again, he already beat his high school mile pb this season.
I’m just not impressed by Hobbs Kessler. His fanboys were basically calling him the next Jakob Ingebrigtsen when he ran 7:39 for 3000m a little over a week ago. Right now he’s not even the next Hobbs Kessler, and he’s not coming close to his high school times in the mile. He needs to take a long look in the mirror about how to fix it because what he’s doing now isn’t working. His 10th place today wouldn’t have won the high school race, not even close. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: Hobbs Kessler will not make the team for Worlds this year.
This is the most completely unfounded thought on here.First of all. Kessler was 18..he signed the most lucrative out of HS distance deal in history, there was NO NIL and would not be for another year in the NCAA...and no shoe company is going to ever ever pay what he got as an NIL. Secondly, according to some of you who never even ran in college and certainly not at this level, you would have him go to NAU , under a guy who has never trainined any top flight 1500/miler types. Thirdly Bosley ran 7:36.4 and Kessler ran 7:39.0...Bosley is 22 and 4 months..Kessler not yet 20. Whose future would you rather have.
Back to the "go to college Ron sucks" theme.
Who has trained more Olympians..Ron? or Mike Smith?
Fourthly..if that is a word..Most of you have no educated view or perspective on this whatsoever. I am fortunate to know a few expert coaches and former coaches..very fortunate. Four of them(not including Ron) when asked directly if Kessler should go Pro with Ron as his mentor..and all four said take that deal asap. As I have said ,step in a gopher hole training for Cross..and you never see a dime. By 28 he will be set up for life if he so chooses and invests wisely.
As for the other guys Ron has trained in the current group. Ferlic made an Olympic Team..Flanagan has Pr'ed at everything from mile to 1/2 Marathon and in between..and Beadlescomb PR at 5K.
Amazing , how in one week a 19 year old..goes from sky is the limit off a time(7:39.0) run twice better now by a collegian(7:36.4 and 7:38) and guys two years older when they ran it..to "it's all over Baby Blue".
In fairness, you are trying to compare someone who makes his money coaching college cross country who only recently started taking on pro athletes. Regardless, Smith has had more Olympic and World success recently. Rachel Schneider his wife qualified as well as Grijalva and GALEN RUPP on 2020. Nur and Grijalva made the 5k final at Worlds in 2022 and Beamish made it in the 5k. Mike Smith also coached BROOKE ANDERSEN in college, who is the World Championship gold medalist in the hammer throw from 2022 and made the Olympics in 2020.
Smith gets paid to produce 10k runners for cross country but his athletes have still run very well over the mile distance. Geordie Beamish was an NCAA champion at 1 mile. An educated person would have every reason to believe that Smith can coach Olympic level 1500m.
This is the most completely unfounded thought on here.First of all. Kessler was 18..he signed the most lucrative out of HS distance deal in history, there was NO NIL and would not be for another year in the NCAA...and no shoe company is going to ever ever pay what he got as an NIL. Secondly, according to some of you who never even ran in college and certainly not at this level, you would have him go to NAU , under a guy who has never trainined any top flight 1500/miler types. Thirdly Bosley ran 7:36.4 and Kessler ran 7:39.0...Bosley is 22 and 4 months..Kessler not yet 20. Whose future would you rather have.
Back to the "go to college Ron sucks" theme.
Who has trained more Olympians..Ron? or Mike Smith?
Fourthly..if that is a word..Most of you have no educated view or perspective on this whatsoever. I am fortunate to know a few expert coaches and former coaches..very fortunate. Four of them(not including Ron) when asked directly if Kessler should go Pro with Ron as his mentor..and all four said take that deal asap. As I have said ,step in a gopher hole training for Cross..and you never see a dime. By 28 he will be set up for life if he so chooses and invests wisely.
As for the other guys Ron has trained in the current group. Ferlic made an Olympic Team..Flanagan has Pr'ed at everything from mile to 1/2 Marathon and in between..and Beadlescomb PR at 5K.
Amazing , how in one week a 19 year old..goes from sky is the limit off a time(7:39.0) run twice better now by a collegian(7:36.4 and 7:38) and guys two years older when they ran it..to "it's all over Baby Blue".
In fairness, you are trying to compare someone who makes his money coaching college cross country who only recently started taking on pro athletes. Regardless, Smith has had more Olympic and World success recently. Rachel Schneider his wife qualified as well as Grijalva and GALEN RUPP on 2020. Nur and Grijalva made the 5k final at Worlds in 2022 and Beamish made it in the 5k. Mike Smith also coached BROOKE ANDERSEN in college, who is the World Championship gold medalist in the hammer throw from 2022 and made the Olympics in 2020.
Smith gets paid to produce 10k runners for cross country but his athletes have still run very well over the mile distance. Geordie Beamish was an NCAA champion at 1 mile. An educated person would have every reason to believe that Smith can coach Olympic level 1500m.
I did not say Smith could not coach Olympic level guys at all
And beamish is not an Olympic caliber 1500 guy …any and everyone knows that
Beamish Profile at 26 and 3.5 months. A very nice runner..but upper tier? Not really. Kessler has run faster at 1500 and 3K before his 20th birthday.
Again, I say if this race had not happened on National TV and look so uninspired, folks would have been saying it was a nice Indoors until this one. And to show how far of an outlier this is? If you can run 2:20.76 in a glorified TT and 7:39..in between logically is a sub 3:54 at least , and I am a "You only get credit for what you run guy" But this was so far off, I would just let it go ...but it will go on and on..LOL
I did not say Smith could not coach Olympic level guys at all
And beamish is not an Olympic caliber 1500 guy …any and everyone knows that
that just is , not because I want it to be so
So far Kessler isn’t either. He is getting paid a lot of money to run at the back of races.
You, like many on here are not nearly educated enough to even be in this discussion. Kessler probably gets more exposure when he runs okay to below average than others do with PRs.
Ferlic doesnt exactly prove your point. Poor choice. Did mason run worse in 20-21 than 2016? Uhh no. He set PBs by the bag full in 21 (basically all his PBs across all distances). And a few in 22!
VNTC seems to be expanding rapidly to me. We shall see the fruits of their labor this season with Flanagan/Hobbs/Ferlic/Beadlescomb et al? I think there are too many data points pointing to great coaching over the years.
Ferlic ran 8:21 in the steeplechase in 2016. He ran 8:18 in 2021 and 8:23 in 2022. The shoes alone will make at least a 5 second improvement. So he has gotten worse. He only made the team in 2021 because it was the weakest USA squad in decades for the steeplechase. No Jager, Cabral is old and washed up, etc.
He has set all PBs since 2016. It was a weakish squad true, but that's not his fault. Set a 3000 PB in 22. He missed a bunch of time in 22 cant remember what for.
It really amazes me how supposed avid/non-casual runners who take the sport somewhat seriously still manage to misunderstand fitness so badly.
You cannot view one race in a vacuum and completely without context. A single race result does not define, absolutely, what kind of fitness one is in. It is not as simple as a 19-year old just ran a 4:05 mile, so he is a “4:05 guy.” The situation is a 19-year old just ran 4:05, a week after running 7:39, who has also run numerous sub-4’s and a 3:34 in the last 24 months (also a 1:46 800). What we are likely witnessing is a generational talent who is still struggling to handle, among other things: increased training loads, pressure, emotional highs/lows, and oh yeah…adult life. Big surprise there, a 19 year old is still figuring how to handle life…there’s 39 year olds that struggle with that.
Every real indication points to Kessler being on track to break numerous American Records in his career.
Washington has 7 milers under 3:57 this season. Warhurst had some decent results in the 1900s. Gags and Lanana also had some milers back before smart phones. Step into the 2020s.
Washington has 7 milers under 3:57 this season. Warhurst had some decent results in the 1900s. Gags and Lanana also had some milers back before smart phones. Step into the 2020s.
Cool. How many of those guys won their race and have also run 2:20 and 7:39 this season?
It really amazes me how supposed avid/non-casual runners who take the sport somewhat seriously still manage to misunderstand fitness so badly.
You cannot view one race in a vacuum and completely without context. A single race result does not define, absolutely, what kind of fitness one is in. It is not as simple as a 19-year old just ran a 4:05 mile, so he is a “4:05 guy.” The situation is a 19-year old just ran 4:05, a week after running 7:39, who has also run numerous sub-4’s and a 3:34 in the last 24 months (also a 1:46 800). What we are likely witnessing is a generational talent who is still struggling to handle, among other things: increased training loads, pressure, emotional highs/lows, and oh yeah…adult life. Big surprise there, a 19 year old is still figuring how to handle life…there’s 39 year olds that struggle with that.
Every real indication points to Kessler being on track to break numerous American Records in his career.
No offense to anyone else on here..but this by far the most accurate and measured view so far. I kind of know what the work looks like and during this every once in a while ..well? The bottom line is you have to do the work...or you cannot get to the next level..period.
Washington has 7 milers under 3:57 this season. Warhurst had some decent results in the 1900s. Gags and Lanana also had some milers back before smart phones. Step into the 2020s.
In fairness, you are trying to compare someone who makes his money coaching college cross country who only recently started taking on pro athletes. Regardless, Smith has had more Olympic and World success recently. Rachel Schneider his wife qualified as well as Grijalva and GALEN RUPP on 2020. Nur and Grijalva made the 5k final at Worlds in 2022 and Beamish made it in the 5k. Mike Smith also coached BROOKE ANDERSEN in college, who is the World Championship gold medalist in the hammer throw from 2022 and made the Olympics in 2020.
Smith gets paid to produce 10k runners for cross country but his athletes have still run very well over the mile distance. Geordie Beamish was an NCAA champion at 1 mile. An educated person would have every reason to believe that Smith can coach Olympic level 1500m.
I did not say Smith could not coach Olympic level guys at all
And beamish is not an Olympic caliber 1500 guy …any and everyone knows that
that just is , not because I want it to be so
Beamish is a 5k runner that Smith coached to an NCAA Mile championship, beating Oliver Hoare in the process. Beamish has taken some pretty big scalps, beating Engels in the 1500 and Hocker and Teare in the 3k.
Smith's success with 5k runners in the 1500 shows he is capable. He's coached Nico (3:56.00), Nur (3:55.94) and Beamish (3:54.86) to a faster mile than Hobbs has run to date.
This is seriously one of the stupidest threads on a website that is a cesspool of hobby-jogging, jealous morons.
Hobbs is a generational talent who had an off-day. He also ran absurdly fast in the 3k recently, as others pointed out. He clearly is fit and fast, and that will show at some point.
Further, blaming a single bad race that he ran while sick on the coach is stupid, as is comparing Ron to Mike Smith. They're both great coaches with great track records. Get over yourself.
If, like stats don't lie, you're stuck on the idea that Hobbs should be a broke college kid at NAU, then you'd do well to remember that NAU is not the only place in the world that produces fast runners, Hobbs 1500 PR converts to faster than any of the NAU guys PRs, Hobbs is clearly developing the aerobic strength that will help him in the long run this year, plus Hobbs made the smart choice of making a solid living as a teenager.
Finally, the idiots on this thread, and a lot of others, need to get a grip. Just like Athing Mu gets ripped on for not racing enough, or not making her races exciting enough, or any one of a million things, Hobbs is a constant point of criticism on this board. The kid is fast, talented, having fun and has arguably more potential to be a global contender in the 1500m over the next 5-10 years than any other American male. Let him progress at his own rate. Show your jealously by being a fan, not a constant source of hate.
