THey all offer Business Degrees at the undergraduate levels, even though not necessarily Finance per se. A long way from degrees in political science and whatever else you are trying to pass them off as. And it is not so much about Cramer as a field. And we amended the salary figures later in the thread, fyi.
Try to keep up.
Of the eight Ivy League schools, only Penn and Cornell offer undergraduate business degrees.
Of the top 10 schools in the US News Rankings, I believe Duke and Penn are the only ones to offer undergrad finance and business degrees respectively. Harvard, MIT, Stanford, UChicago, Columbia, and Northwestern all have M7 b-schools but do not offer undergrad business degrees.
Top undergrad business programs outside of Penn are basically at the big state flagships: Cal (Haas), UMich (Ross), UT-Austin (McCombs), etc. These schools place many students into investment banking, but on a per-capita basis the top private schools probably do a bit better.
Cornell apparently offers a "BS IN APPLIED ECONOMICS & MANAGEMENT" as well as a " BS IN HOTEL ADMINISTRATION".
We would never interview anyone with a business degree. It's pretty much categorically physics, math, eng, and then other misc things like cs. But, I work in FI quant trading which is fairly technical. We aren't exclusively PhDs but it is a useful resume screen (PhD in physics/math/etc and attended a top University). Some of the smartest people I work with don't have PhDs, so it's absolutely not needed, but it is really just a useful way to whittle down the resumes to something manageable for junior hires.
Interviewing for juniors hires is pretty intense. You get put through your paces in all sorts of tests and teasers, many of which are open ended problems. The more senior you are, the less intense the interview process, typically, bc you more or less just go in to details about what they've worked on to see if they're full of sh**t or not.
We would never interview anyone with a business degree. It's pretty much categorically physics, math, eng, and then other misc things like cs. But, I work in FI quant trading which is fairly technical. We aren't exclusively PhDs but it is a useful resume screen (PhD in physics/math/etc and attended a top University). Some of the smartest people I work with don't have PhDs, so it's absolutely not needed, but it is really just a useful way to whittle down the resumes to something manageable for junior hires.
Interviewing for juniors hires is pretty intense. You get put through your paces in all sorts of tests and teasers, many of which are open ended problems. The more senior you are, the less intense the interview process, typically, bc you more or less just go in to details about what they've worked on to see if they're full of sh**t or not.
That sounds like it would be 'fun', but is it? Is it so mathematically derived that it takes the creativity out of it? Again, interesting that you say attending a top university is a target for hiring.
One thing that seems to be becoming clear is that different facets of HF, IB, etc,, look for different qualifications in their new hires. While Business degree is not of interest in your field, it seems to be in IB, for example. I know someone from one of the elites schools with a business undergrad degree going the field, and he describes his area as strategic advisory, a term i never heard of before.
You’ve hit the nail on the head. Junior traders don’t need PhDs, but they need a degree in math/physics (or maybe CS). The only person I’ve seen interviewing without one had a degree in Econ…but it was primarily applied math and he didn’t exactly go to a low-ranking school (Sloan).
Yes, currently work at a hedge fund. 5+ years at a long/short fund.
Wouldn’t describe it as fun, but love the job.
- If you enjoy learning and are competitive, it’s the best job in the world. You’re paid to learn.
- It’s also all-consuming. I think about stocks 24/7. You don’t have to work 70+ hours a week, but it’s a very competitive industry and you’re constantly trying to be better and faster than your peers. That can be tiring/stressful over time. What Hedge fund manager said is spot on.
- Hedge funds are a small, tight-knit group. Most of the AUM is controlled by the top 100 funds, who don’t really employ that many people. If you’re not careful, your world can easily narrow into this bubble.
- As an analyst, your job is to come up with new ideas. This involves meeting CEOs (they’re thrilled to meet with 27yo’s who know nothing about their business!), finding industry experts, speaking with sellside, calling other buyside contacts, etc. Most analysts are coming out of top-tier IB or PE firms.
- As a PM, your job is to manage risk, i.e. your gross/net exposure, your factors, etc. and make sure your portfolio doesn’t blow up. The guys at the top are absolute beasts. Think Ax on Billions.
- On that note, the show Billions is surprisingly accurate (minus the insider trading + market manipulation). Best way to understand the industry from the outside.
- I’ve gotten a lot slower … like a minute per mile slower in just a few years!
The compensation information is widely available; I'm not sure why there is confusion here. IT varies wildly based on both assets under management (AUM) and success in a given year. If my firm successfully grows a company and turns $100mm of equity into $300mm, we get to share $40mm amongst ourselves; that's carried interest. I also earn cash compensation, which at my small place is $500-750k/year, plus the carried interest. But I also have a good lifestyle and don't live in NYC. Several of my friends make $1-2mm in cash per year, but work longer hours and have less flexibility.
How many people are splitting the $40mm? Sounds like you might be making more than the 1-2 mmm a year too.
And the carried interest is taxed at capital gains rates right?
- It’s also all-consuming. I think about stocks 24/7. You don’t have to work 70+ hours a week, but it’s a very competitive industry and you’re constantly trying to be better and faster than your peers. That can be tiring/stressful over time. What Hedge fund manager said is spot on.
- Hedge funds are a small, tight-knit group. Most of the AUM is controlled by the top 100 funds, who don’t really employ that many people. If you’re not careful, your world can easily narrow into this bubble.
- As an analyst, your job is to come up with new ideas. This involves meeting CEOs (they’re thrilled to meet with 27yo’s who know nothing about their business!), finding industry experts, speaking with sellside, calling other buyside contacts, etc. Most analysts are coming out of top-tier IB or PE firms.
- As a PM, your job is to manage risk, i.e. your gross/net exposure, your factors, etc. and make sure your portfolio doesn’t blow up. The guys at the top are absolute beasts. Think Ax on Billions.
- On that note, the show Billions is surprisingly accurate (minus the insider trading + market manipulation). Best way to understand the industry from the outside.
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Those days are over. Everything is driven by computers and a lot of math smart people hedging risks much as possible while trying to eke out gains. It was so much easier to make $ in old days. Forget stupid movies about Wall St. Those days are over too. Look at what happened to idiot hedge fund managers that traded like the old days and bought CVNA, XOOM, etc. to the moon. They all have been decimated. Stock and index options pretty much control stock prices. You buy hoping to profit and they sell you those calls and puts hoping you get nothing.
Those days are over. Everything is driven by computers and a lot of math smart people hedging risks much as possible while trying to eke out gains. It was so much easier to make $ in old days. Forget stupid movies about Wall St. Those days are over too. Look at what happened to idiot hedge fund managers that traded like the old days and bought CVNA, XOOM, etc. to the moon. They all have been decimated. Stock and index options pretty much control stock prices. You buy hoping to profit and they sell you those calls and puts hoping you get nothing.
Those days are over. Everything is driven by computers and a lot of math smart people hedging risks much as possible while trying to eke out gains. It was so much easier to make $ in old days. Forget stupid movies about Wall St. Those days are over too. Look at what happened to idiot hedge fund managers that traded like the old days and bought CVNA, XOOM, etc. to the moon. They all have been decimated. Stock and index options pretty much control stock prices. You buy hoping to profit and they sell you those calls and puts hoping you get nothing.
- It’s also all-consuming. I think about stocks 24/7. You don’t have to work 70+ hours a week, but it’s a very competitive industry and you’re constantly trying to be better and faster than your peers. That can be tiring/stressful over time. What Hedge fund manager said is spot on.
- Hedge funds are a small, tight-knit group. Most of the AUM is controlled by the top 100 funds, who don’t really employ that many people. If you’re not careful, your world can easily narrow into this bubble.
- As an analyst, your job is to come up with new ideas. This involves meeting CEOs (they’re thrilled to meet with 27yo’s who know nothing about their business!), finding industry experts, speaking with sellside, calling other buyside contacts, etc. Most analysts are coming out of top-tier IB or PE firms.
- As a PM, your job is to manage risk, i.e. your gross/net exposure, your factors, etc. and make sure your portfolio doesn’t blow up. The guys at the top are absolute beasts. Think Ax on Billions.
- On that note, the show Billions is surprisingly accurate (minus the insider trading + market manipulation). Best way to understand the industry from the outside.
How does your fund do vs the market?
Jim Cramer says his hedge fund generated 24%+ returns for his customers for 15 consecutive years
maybe not an ethnic mafia per se, but the elite hedge funds tend to draw employees from the top colleges. I've been told that the same goes for M&A, for that matter. Namely, UPenn, Harvard, Stanford, Cornell., are the top of the list in that order.
I can confirm this. It was tough for me to break in because they want degrees and specifically MBAs from those schools and only those schools. I'm in private equity now, so not necessarily a hedge fund, but it took me 8 years of resume building to get here because I did not go to a top school. Sure, UCLA is good, but UCLA is not Harvard, UPenn, Stanford, MIT, etc.
I think I landed the private equity job because my manager and his manager, who is one of the co-founders, went to UCLA. The interview with the co-founder consisted of talking about UCLA for an hour. Sure, I blew the Excel test out of the water and was even told later it was the best they had ever seen, so that probably sealed the deal but still. I wonder if I didn't have the UCLA connection if they would have hired me.
maybe not an ethnic mafia per se, but the elite hedge funds tend to draw employees from the top colleges. I've been told that the same goes for M&A, for that matter. Namely, UPenn, Harvard, Stanford, Cornell., are the top of the list in that order.
I can confirm this. It was tough for me to break in because they want degrees and specifically MBAs from those schools and only those schools. I'm in private equity now, so not necessarily a hedge fund, but it took me 8 years of resume building to get here because I did not go to a top school. Sure, UCLA is good, but UCLA is not Harvard, UPenn, Stanford, MIT, etc.
I think I landed the private equity job because my manager and his manager, who is one of the co-founders, went to UCLA. The interview with the co-founder consisted of talking about UCLA for an hour. Sure, I blew the Excel test out of the water and was even told later it was the best they had ever seen, so that probably sealed the deal but still. I wonder if I didn't have the UCLA connection if they would have hired me.
Congratulations! UCLA is a fantastic school from what I know of it. We toured it while son was looking for an undergrad school.
Is a MBA necessary to land a job in this area? I heard that a Bachelors from a good Business/FInance program usually does the trick, but perhaps there are levels within the firms associated with each degree of education. TIA and just trying to become informed.
It’s a little less top heavy in the past 5-7 years, but when I was interviewing (late 2000s / early 2010s) they’d pretty much only look at ~10 or so schools. Now, they’ll look at ~30 or so, but you have to be much more impressive if you’re from a T30 school compared to a T5.
I found the interview process interesting. I didn’t need to really prepare for the mental math, but I had to prepare a lot for the coding. I thought the brain teasers were fine, but I pretty much memorized a couple of interview prep books.
Yes, currently work at a hedge fund. 5+ years at a long/short fund.
Wouldn’t describe it as fun, but love the job.
- If you enjoy learning and are competitive, it’s the best job in the world. You’re paid to learn.
- It’s also all-consuming. I think about stocks 24/7. You don’t have to work 70+ hours a week, but it’s a very competitive industry and you’re constantly trying to be better and faster than your peers. That can be tiring/stressful over time. What Hedge fund manager said is spot on.
- Hedge funds are a small, tight-knit group. Most of the AUM is controlled by the top 100 funds, who don’t really employ that many people. If you’re not careful, your world can easily narrow into this bubble.
- As an analyst, your job is to come up with new ideas. This involves meeting CEOs (they’re thrilled to meet with 27yo’s who know nothing about their business!), finding industry experts, speaking with sellside, calling other buyside contacts, etc. Most analysts are coming out of top-tier IB or PE firms.
- As a PM, your job is to manage risk, i.e. your gross/net exposure, your factors, etc. and make sure your portfolio doesn’t blow up. The guys at the top are absolute beasts. Think Ax on Billions.
- On that note, the show Billions is surprisingly accurate (minus the insider trading + market manipulation). Best way to understand the industry from the outside.
- I’ve gotten a lot slower … like a minute per mile slower in just a few years!
On a scale of Mafee, to 'Dollar Bill', to Taylor what is the average analyst like?
Great question. Without a doubt, most common archetype is Ben Kim …
To Wejo’s question, outperform the market by 3-5% per year. Doesn’t sound like much, but if you compound at 10% instead of 7% for 25 years, you’ll end up with twice as much as just investing in the market.
Maybe its the movies. I fail to see the fascination. After markets meltdown 1929 & 1931, mutual funds no longer can short and mutual funds can only write covered call. Hedge funds can short, ruin clients with every type of derivative strategy, are allowed to trade agriculture commodities, currencies, precious metals, fossil fuels and as in Trading Places,hedge funds can trade orange juice futures! You gals and guys and not smarter than anyone else in the business. Have I taken away the mystique? What else do you gals & guys trade that I have not included?