You have to wonder what he would achieve, had he taken running on flat roads seriously.
I don't have to wonder. When he took running a flat 10k seriously, he was nearly chicked, children beat him by over a minute and he was thumped by 17 local Norwegian club hobby-joggers.
He cruised to a sub 30 10k despite running on one leg and wearing clunky trail shoes while all his competitors had Vaporflys.
His V02 max is off the charts , if he took the time to train properly for speedwork he'd be Top 5 in Europe easily over any distance.
I don't have to wonder. When he took running a flat 10k seriously, he was nearly chicked, children beat him by over a minute and he was thumped by 17 local Norwegian club hobby-joggers.
He cruised to a sub 30 10k despite running on one leg and wearing clunky trail shoes while all his competitors had Vaporflys.
His V02 max is off the charts , if he took the time to train properly for speedwork he'd be Top 5 in Europe easily over any distance.
He claims that his VO2 is off the charts, but obviously it isn't enough to beat Norwegian children and hobby joggers. He always has a lot to say about his "sub 29 minute 10K training runs" but when it comes to a real measured and timed race, he has a lot of excuses about why he can't beat local hobby joggers: the shoes, a sore pinkie, course too flat, course too easy, bad salmon. With such a "high VO2", he should be able to beat these locals while running backwards.
I’m admittedly a big Kilian fan, but I think he’s legit despite being on such a high level compared to all his competitors.
He was raised in a mountain refuge at altitude and been running/skiing in the mountains since he was a kid. Nobody has the advantage of a lifetime of training that he has.
I remember witnessing him winning Hardrock in one of the first years he ran it. The next day after running for 24 hours straight he was sprinting across a parking lot like the effort was nothing to him. Just crazy natural ability to move all day in the mountains
Misunderstanding? In the middle of the race, he was told by Karl and race officials to STOP!...but he continue!
Absolutely. While fatigued and used to doing it one way for years he was told mid-race in his at best 3rd language. He didn't complain and now he knows.
If you gave me mid-race instructions Kate in a hard Ultra in a language other than my first I may misunderstand too.
Misunderstanding? In the middle of the race, he was told by Karl and race officials to STOP!...but he continue!
Absolutely. While fatigued and used to doing it one way for years he was told mid-race in his at best 3rd language. He didn't complain and now he knows.
If you gave me mid-race instructions Kate in a hard Ultra in a language other than my first I may misunderstand too.
If Kilian have put is efforts on track have he beat Bekele? Almost certaintly not.
But more clearly certain is the contrary!
Genetics are 80% to 90% of the capacity of track/road athlete .
Ultra trail are at best 50% to 60%! U have to Run at night, eat while running, be exposed to high/low temperatures, Run flat, uphill and dowhill hours, run with a "weigh" on the back, know about equipment....
More variables+more running time more dificult to always be the best....
it was two everest summits he claimed that are in dispute, not one.
He cheats on courses.
he is spanish and lives in norway.
there is terrible testing in ultras.
he started ski mountaineering in 2000 and was in the spanish national team.
how many red flags do you want?
I don't get why I'm being called out or why this thread is called a cesspool. Asking if a runner is a doper isn't bad. It's a question that any student of the sport would always be asking if something made them suspicious. As a result, it blows my mind that the post above has more than 2 to 1 negatives in terms of votes. It's a very factual post. It should have more upvotes than downvotes. Now it doesn't mean he's a doper - far from it.
It just shows that most people don't want information - they want affirmation. Most reading at thread on Kilian are fans and don't want the truth. They want fanboys.
I don't have to wonder. When he took running a flat 10k seriously, he was nearly chicked, children beat him by over a minute and he was thumped by 17 local Norwegian club hobby-joggers.
He cruised to a sub 30 10k despite running on one leg and wearing clunky trail shoes while all his competitors had Vaporflys.
His V02 max is off the charts , if he took the time to train properly for speedwork he'd be Top 5 in Europe easily over any distance.
Stop. He doesn't have the speed to qualify for Worlds in the 10,000. No chance. I'll pay him $100,000 if he ever breaks 27:30 in the 10,000.
it was two everest summits he claimed that are in dispute, not one.
He cheats on courses.
he is spanish and lives in norway.
there is terrible testing in ultras.
he started ski mountaineering in 2000 and was in the spanish national team.
how many red flags do you want?
I don't get why I'm being called out or why this thread is called a cesspool. Asking if a runner is a doper isn't bad. It's a question that any student of the sport would always be asking if something made them suspicious. As a result, it blows my mind that the post above has more than 2 to 1 negatives in terms of votes. It's a very factual post. It should have more upvotes than downvotes. Now it doesn't mean he's a doper - far from it.
It just shows that most people don't want information - they want affirmation. Most reading at thread on Kilian are fans and don't want the truth. They want fanboys.
Nice try. And a bit patronizing. But:
1. This clearly negative thread appears hours after Killian - even you have to admit - spectacular win. Sometimes timing is everything and shows your real intentions. This thread is not intended to be an honest and balanced discussion, but it's bringing down KJ and his victory. You don't talk sh1t about somebody on his b-day even if you don't like the guy.
2. You bringing Kipchoge into the UTMB thread was plain ridiculous. I cannot buy any excuses why it would make sense to do it. Intentionally negative. Wrong timing and place. Again.
3. To the mods. If you start deleting posts like never before and discussions don't get any more civilized, you're clearly doing something wrong. This heavy handed mods fest is an unprecedented in the LRC history.
He is an aerobic monster, because he's been doing aerobic excercise since he was a kid. He combined running with sky mountaneering for years, which is just a great combination. He keeps active all year round, and knows how to train. His main change in recent years has been on fueling. He used to race on very little fuel, and still win. Now he's embraced the 100gr of carbs per hour, which in layman's terms means a gel very 15 minutes. Yes, 4 gels per hour which would mean 80 gels during UTMB. Obviously he doesn't do that, he drinks Maurten 320 instead of only Maurten 100. Maurten 320 is a bit more than 3 gels mixed in 500ml. Basically he has learnt to prime his massive aerobic engine on blood glycogen rather than only through beta oxidation of fatty acids. During UTMB he was even testing his blood glucose at aid stations. He managed the race so well. In top shape, with this fueling strategy, he could run 18 hours. Next year Jim Walmsley will run under 19 hours at UTMB. Then we will have to revisit this post. You read it here first.
He cruised to a sub 30 10k despite running on one leg and wearing clunky trail shoes while all his competitors had Vaporflys.
His V02 max is off the charts , if he took the time to train properly for speedwork he'd be Top 5 in Europe easily over any distance.
Stop. He doesn't have the speed to qualify for Worlds in the 10,000. No chance. I'll pay him $100,000 if he ever breaks 27:30 in the 10,000.
Rojo, that was generous and he’s not getting anywhere near 28:30/10,000. I would situate his talent level at running 10,000 at between 28:50-29:20, but even in that situation he would have to sacrifice his trail running and training.
Stop. He doesn't have the speed to qualify for Worlds in the 10,000. No chance. I'll pay him $100,000 if he ever breaks 27:30 in the 10,000.
Rojo, that was generous and he’s not getting anywhere near 28:30/10,000. I would situate his talent level at running 10,000 at between 28:50-29:20, but even in that situation he would have to sacrifice his trail running and training.
He doesn't have any interest in road running either, much like most of the European sky runners. Far as I know the 10k was a Salomon request, since they were releasing the Phantasm road shoe. Same with the 24 hour track record attempt.
Does he have better road and track times in him? Perhaps. But what does it matter? It's not his discipline, and many other runners specializing in those distances will definitely be better.
Love all the accusations, btw. Especially statements such as, "It is widely known..." which leaves the poster not having to produce any evidence, beyond spicing the accusation as if it comes from a group.
Kílian remains one of the most respected and adored athletes, both from an audience and competitor perspective. He is respectful, genial, polite, and comes off as shy if anything. He's also someone that has had incredible longevity and consistency. A once in a generation athlete for his sport, much like Kipchoge, Ingebrigtsen, Usain Bolt, and so on.
rojo your agenda is quite plain, from the UTMB thread to this. Quite disappointing.
Very few top level trail runners are in the AIU or national level testing pool (Jim W. is one of the few that come to mind). Trail running is not governed by the AIU so there is no requirement for testing at these events.
Western States has historically done drug testing at their event, including this year, but very few others (if any) have on-site drug testing at their events. My understanding is that testing costs about $600 to $800 per tests. At that price you'd think there would be more testing occurring.
Rojo's only agenda is to get people posting more on the site. I seriously doubt he has any personal agenda against Killian.
I don't think it's unreasonable to ask questions about potential doping by someone doing extraordinary things. We should expect full transparency from the best in the world. As we have seen many times in the past what seems too good to be true is usually too good to be true. It is useful to know how many in and out of competition tests he has had done in the last few years. That might stop some of the speculation. It's useful if people openly disclose any TUE's or supplements etc they are taking. If people are not prepared to talk about it or get offended and defensive when questions are asked it is usually a big red flag. Never heard anyone ask Killian about him doping himself or doping in trail running generally. Would be interested to hear how would respond to questions about it. Clearly having so little testing in trail running increases the number of people who will dope. If the sport ever becomes more main stream that is something they will need to sort out.
If people are not prepared to talk about it or get offended and defensive when questions are asked it is usually a big red flag. Never heard anyone ask Killian about him doping himself or doping in trail running generally. Would be interested to hear how would respond to questions about it. Clearly having so little testing in trail running increases the number of people who will dope. If the sport ever becomes more main stream that is something they will need to sort out.
I've never doped, but I'd be defensive if someone asked me that question. It's a natural response. It's a crock to want to ask that question without having evidence because almost everyone will look bad when set on the defensive. It's one of those classic techniques used in politics to make an opponent look bad.
I wouldn't put him beyond reproach, but what he's doing isn't "extraordinary" in a way that makes me think he has to be doping. The guy he beat this weekend finished 5 min. back and is hardly a legend of the sport. He loses races, keeps a reasonable racing season, and he's been consistent his whole career. He didn't drop a 28:00 10k with no road background (would've been a red flag IMO).
So absent connections to known dopers or any evidence whatsoever, it just reads as sour grapes that the American didn't win.
I wouldn't put him beyond reproach, but what he's doing isn't "extraordinary" in a way that makes me think he has to be doping. The guy he beat this weekend finished 5 min. back and is hardly a legend of the sport. He loses races, keeps a reasonable racing season, and he's been consistent his whole career. He didn't drop a 28:00 10k with no road background (would've been a red flag IMO).
So absent connections to known dopers or any evidence whatsoever, it just reads as sour grapes that the American didn't win.
Killian isn't an LRC fave, so the default is "it's fine to accuse him of doping bcause what do we really know?"
If it's an American of a particular 'category', the default is 'they're clean and testing is faulty."