More Kenyans busted for doping? Kenya down to 1 female CG marathoner, apparently due to more positive tests

rekrunner wrote:

Rillington wrote:

Concluding, we need to believe this:

- An elite athlete has no idea which are the banned illegal substances that appear on anti-doping lists; substances which would likely trigger a doping violation.

- An elite athlete may have no idea (and take no interest) as to the substances which have caused other athletes to fail doping controls even from public media reports.

Okay!

I don't expect you or "we" to believe anything. I was asked if I "honestly believed she had to google nandrolone".

I think I agree with how Andy Brown from SportsIntegrityInitiative put it:

But for many athletes, anti-doping just doesn’t exist until it happens to them. Most athletes support life bans until they discover that you can ‘test positive’ due contaminated food, water, or even for kissing another person.

Have you read the banned doping list -- there must be hundreds of drugs on the list with exotic scientific names and greek letters.

Hearing reports of other athletes, I suspect most athletes may just take away that someone was busted for anabolic steroids, but quickly forget exactly which one.

As someone said above, nandrolone is more a sprinter/body-builder/weightlifter drug. It's not obvious to me that distance running athletes or coaches would have or should have ever heard of it, or recognized it by its name.

rekrunner wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Link:www.insidethegames.biz/articles/108774...

I wont even mention the age cheating.

Here is a prime example.

We learned from the Houlihan case that Kenyan farmers do not routinely castrate their pork -- the "near zero" arguments in the US and Canada that seem so damning do not apply in Kenya, and the risk of testing positive for nandrolone simply from eating pork is significant.

The WADA Code then puts this 17-year old African (does she even speak English or French? should she know what nandrolone is?) in the position of having to hire a legal team, and scientists, at her own expense, estimated at 5 to 6 figures, to do all the detective work necessary to establish the source of a substance she may never have heard of, from an industry she has no awareness of, in order to convince a panel beyond the balance of probability.

This is not what justice and fairness to innocent athletes looks like.

Armstronglivs wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

I don't expect you or "we" to believe anything. I was asked if I "honestly believed she had to google nandrolone".

I think I agree with how Andy Brown from SportsIntegrityInitiative put it:

Have you read the banned doping list -- there must be hundreds of drugs on the list with exotic scientific names and greek letters.

Hearing reports of other athletes, I suspect most athletes may just take away that someone was busted for anabolic steroids, but quickly forget exactly which one.

As someone said above, nandrolone is more a sprinter/body-builder/weightlifter drug. It's not obvious to me that distance running athletes or coaches would have or should have ever heard of it, or recognized it by its name.

So neither she nor her coach would periodically check the banned list, which clearly applies to elite and professional athletes? And that is especially considering the same athletes are periodically tested for substances on the list. Of course, most of those banned substances turn up by either ingesting a pill, applying a patch, or through an injection. None of that is accidental. (Burritos have been expertly assessed as of "near-zero" likelihood). Gee - how did that banned drug end up in my system!

You'll believe any bunch of lies if it would exonerate a doper.

Armstronglivs wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

I don't expect you or "we" to believe anything. I was asked if I "honestly believed she had to google nandrolone".

I think I agree with how Andy Brown from SportsIntegrityInitiative put it:

Have you read the banned doping list -- there must be hundreds of drugs on the list with exotic scientific names and greek letters.

Hearing reports of other athletes, I suspect most athletes may just take away that someone was busted for anabolic steroids, but quickly forget exactly which one.

As someone said above, nandrolone is more a sprinter/body-builder/weightlifter drug. It's not obvious to me that distance running athletes or coaches would have or should have ever heard of it, or recognized it by its name.

So neither she nor her coach would periodically check the banned list, which clearly applies to elite and professional athletes? And that is especially considering the same athletes are periodically tested for substances on the list. Of course, most of those banned substances turn up by either ingesting a pill, applying a patch, or through an injection. None of that is accidental. (Burritos have been expertly assessed as of "near-zero" likelihood). Gee - how did that banned drug end up in my system!

You'll believe any bunch of lies if it would exonerate a doper.

rekrunner wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

So neither she nor her coach would periodically check the banned list, which clearly applies to elite and professional athletes? And that is especially considering the same athletes are periodically tested for substances on the list. Of course, most of those banned substances turn up by either ingesting a pill, applying a patch, or through an injection. None of that is accidental. (Burritos have been expertly assessed as of "near-zero" likelihood). Gee - how did that banned drug end up in my system!

You'll believe any bunch of lies if it would exonerate a doper.

Whether they check the lists or not, the question is whether they would have to google what nandrolone is. It's one thing to read the name on a list, and quite another to remember all the drugs on that same list, and yet again another thing to find out detailed information about that drug. Imagine an athlete gets busted for roxadustat or alexamorelin. These can also be found in the banned list, but I expect most elite athletes/coaches would have to google it to find out what it is.

Houlihan and her team had an obligation to explain likely sources of nandrolone -- this information cannot be found in the banned list.