I like when posters like you confidently make assertions of which you know NOTHING about.
Running is a niche sport in the US. It’s 2 out of a relatively small talent pool, only 30,000 at the NCAA level, and that includes a huge fraction of international collegiate athletes.
In the US, football is king, then basketball, then waaaayyyy down the line track and field. There is nothing USATF can do to combat this, contact team sports are part of American violence culture.
But to act like the US has had paltry success based on population is a fallacy at best, bias at worst. It could be argued that the US has actually had disproportionate success compared to all other nations, BECAUSE of the resources you mentioned, when looking at the amount of competitors and the amount of medals at the sprint, middle distance, and YES distance events.
"Confidently make assertions"? Do you think two medalists is good results? I would argue that USAS potential is a lot higher. 30.000 is a lot. There are more tracks in any state in the US than in Uganda and Kenya combined. No european nation has the same industrial scale system where you can run fast and be admitted to a top school. Every day in here there is a new thread of some high schooler phenom. I would believe that it would translate into more than two runners medalling internationally, but I guess I am an idiot.
I like when posters like you confidently make assertions of which you know NOTHING about.
Running is a niche sport in the US. It’s 2 out of a relatively small talent pool, only 30,000 at the NCAA level, and that includes a huge fraction of international collegiate athletes.
In the US, football is king, then basketball, then waaaayyyy down the line track and field. There is nothing USATF can do to combat this, contact team sports are part of American violence culture.
But to act like the US has had paltry success based on population is a fallacy at best, bias at worst. It could be argued that the US has actually had disproportionate success compared to all other nations, BECAUSE of the resources you mentioned, when looking at the amount of competitors and the amount of medals at the sprint, middle distance, and YES distance events.
"Confidently make assertions"? Do you think two medalists is good results? I would argue that USAS potential is a lot higher. 30.000 is a lot. There are more tracks in any state in the US than in Uganda and Kenya combined. No european nation has the same industrial scale system where you can run fast and be admitted to a top school. Every day in here there is a new thread of some high schooler phenom. I would believe that it would translate into more than two runners medalling internationally, but I guess I am an idiot.
So are we ignoring Raevyn Rogers bronze medal last year, or Ajee Wilsons two bronzes, or Brenda Martinez silver, or Alysia Montano's two bronzes, or Symmond's silver, or Clayton Murphy's bronze? Many of these should be even better, but I don't want to derail this thread talking about intersex athletes.
In fact, since 2011 the US has 11 global outdoor medals at 800m from 8 different athletes. Only 1 other country on the planet has more and thats Kenya with 14 medals.
Yeah I'm a Paul Chelimo fan because he's smart, tough. He has heart. He's brought home 3 medals!
I scoff at that horse$hit about wasting taxpayer money. HA! Don't get me started about wasting my taxes. Whoops, toooo late. How about Trump building a massive deficit to new heights while giving billions in tax dodges to the rich? OH YEAH, DONNIE he really cares about the little guy, he really cleaned up that swamp didn't he? HA.
"Confidently make assertions"? Do you think two medalists is good results? I would argue that USAS potential is a lot higher. 30.000 is a lot. There are more tracks in any state in the US than in Uganda and Kenya combined. No european nation has the same industrial scale system where you can run fast and be admitted to a top school. Every day in here there is a new thread of some high schooler phenom. I would believe that it would translate into more than two runners medalling internationally, but I guess I am an idiot.
So are we ignoring Raevyn Rogers bronze medal last year, or Ajee Wilsons two bronzes, or Brenda Martinez silver, or Alysia Montano's two bronzes, or Symmond's silver, or Clayton Murphy's bronze? Many of these should be even better, but I don't want to derail this thread talking about intersex athletes.
In fact, since 2011 the US has 11 global outdoor medals at 800m from 8 different athletes. Only 1 other country on the planet has more and thats Kenya with 14 medals.
You want to try again?
If you could spend 2 seconds reading the question that we discussed, it would help you tremendously participating in this discussion. Let me help you, in fact I'll even highlight the important parts so we are sure you won't exert yourself reading the full sentence:
"When was the last time a male born in U.S. who participated in U.S. high school and college system won an Olympic 3000mSC/5000m/10000m medal?"
I'm no expert but I don't think Ajee Wilson, Brenda Martinez, Raevyn Rogers or Alysia Montano is male runners, but since you bring up intersex runners maybe you know something we don't know? At the same time, I'm very sure Symmonds silver was in the 800m (which again - I am pretty sure is a shorter distance than 3000m) and Claython Murphy's 800m bronze also was in the 800m.
Not a Paul Chelimo fan, especially after his performance last year at USA 5k where he ran Woody and Grant out to lane 5 in the final 75m.
Not a Paul Chelimo fan, given he hasn’t raced this year in the US due to living and training in Kenya and recently dropped out of the 5k at Pre for no publicized reason. Did his contractual commitment and bailed.
Not a Paul Chelimo fan, due to being part of the US Army team that is exclusively African men and women that gained US citizenship by being part of this team structure at tax payer expense. Granted he and others are not the ones at fault; the apparatus is there to take advantage of and not have to do anything more than basic training.
Incorrect on just doing the basic training, for example I think Bor works as an accountant doing regular hours. The army has been a path to US citizenship since way before you were born... for anyone who signs the contract and meets the obligations in it. That's the way contracts work.
I like when posters like you confidently make assertions of which you know NOTHING about.
Running is a niche sport in the US. It’s 2 out of a relatively small talent pool, only 30,000 at the NCAA level, and that includes a huge fraction of international collegiate athletes.
In the US, football is king, then basketball, then waaaayyyy down the line track and field. There is nothing USATF can do to combat this, contact team sports are part of American violence culture.
But to act like the US has had paltry success based on population is a fallacy at best, bias at worst. It could be argued that the US has actually had disproportionate success compared to all other nations, BECAUSE of the resources you mentioned, when looking at the amount of competitors and the amount of medals at the sprint, middle distance, and YES distance events.
"Confidently make assertions"? Do you think two medalists is good results? I would argue that USAS potential is a lot higher. 30.000 is a lot. There are more tracks in any state in the US than in Uganda and Kenya combined. No european nation has the same industrial scale system where you can run fast and be admitted to a top school. Every day in here there is a new thread of some high schooler phenom. I would believe that it would translate into more than two runners medalling internationally, but I guess I am an idiot.
30,000 includes all athletes, between 10-15% of of which are international athletes. This number is even higher at the top end, D1 level. A huge portion of this 30,000 is D3 athletes with no intent of running professionally.
Furthermore, when you consider that 25 MILLION Japanese identify as runners as their primary sport, does 30,000 seem like a large number to you?
The US is, undoubtedly and far and away, the most successful nation in Track and Field and Athletics, at every level. This is not even close. And please check out the success of the US in the sprint and throws events during those years they weren’t winning distance races.
East Africans have dominated the distance races since the 90s. They've dominated every distance, and every other country. This is in part due to genetics, in part due to rampant doping. The US has been the most successful non-African nation, even without WCAP. As the other posted noted, you are missing MANY medalists, and that’s just at 800. Kara Goucher, Shalane Flanagan, Emily Infeld, the list goes on. You don’t get to conveniently ignore half the population (women) in your argument.
"Confidently make assertions"? Do you think two medalists is good results? I would argue that USAS potential is a lot higher. 30.000 is a lot. There are more tracks in any state in the US than in Uganda and Kenya combined. No european nation has the same industrial scale system where you can run fast and be admitted to a top school. Every day in here there is a new thread of some high schooler phenom. I would believe that it would translate into more than two runners medalling internationally, but I guess I am an idiot.
30,000 includes all athletes, between 10-15% of of which are international athletes. This number is even higher at the top end, D1 level. A huge portion of this 30,000 is D3 athletes with no intent of running professionally.
Furthermore, when you consider that 25 MILLION Japanese identify as runners as their primary sport, does 30,000 seem like a large number to you?
The US is, undoubtedly and far and away, the most successful nation in Track and Field and Athletics, at every level. This is not even close. And please check out the success of the US in the sprint and throws events during those years they weren’t winning distance races.
East Africans have dominated the distance races since the 90s. They've dominated every distance, and every other country. This is in part due to genetics, in part due to rampant doping. The US has been the most successful non-African nation, even without WCAP. As the other posted noted, you are missing MANY medalists, and that’s just at 800. Kara Goucher, Shalane Flanagan, Emily Infeld, the list goes on. You don’t get to conveniently ignore half the population (women) in your argument.
Why are you comparing the NCAA with japanese hobby joggers? The true comparison would be how many americans which identify as joggers, not how many there is in the NCAA. Why are you make blatantly misguided arguments like that?
Why are you talking about sprint and throws? Thats not the discussion here.
Why are you talking about 800 meters again? Again this is not the discussion. Why do you mention Goucher and Flanagan and Infeld? These are not men, and again is not the discussion.
All in all, why do you avoid the discussion which were male medals in 3000m, 5000m, 10.000m? This is quite frankly very weird. Its not the best way to participate in a discussion.
Despite what you say I think the US has great potential in medalling in these distances. Just now in 2022 you have great talents like Fisher, Klecker, Chelimo. You've had Rupp. I strongly disagree with your assertion that you shouldn't expect more medals.
30,000 includes all athletes, between 10-15% of of which are international athletes. This number is even higher at the top end, D1 level. A huge portion of this 30,000 is D3 athletes with no intent of running professionally.
Furthermore, when you consider that 25 MILLION Japanese identify as runners as their primary sport, does 30,000 seem like a large number to you?
The US is, undoubtedly and far and away, the most successful nation in Track and Field and Athletics, at every level. This is not even close. And please check out the success of the US in the sprint and throws events during those years they weren’t winning distance races.
East Africans have dominated the distance races since the 90s. They've dominated every distance, and every other country. This is in part due to genetics, in part due to rampant doping. The US has been the most successful non-African nation, even without WCAP. As the other posted noted, you are missing MANY medalists, and that’s just at 800. Kara Goucher, Shalane Flanagan, Emily Infeld, the list goes on. You don’t get to conveniently ignore half the population (women) in your argument.
Why are you comparing the NCAA with japanese hobby joggers? The true comparison would be how many americans which identify as joggers, not how many there is in the NCAA. Why are you make blatantly misguided arguments like that?
Why are you talking about sprint and throws? Thats not the discussion here.
Why are you talking about 800 meters again? Again this is not the discussion. Why do you mention Goucher and Flanagan and Infeld? These are not men, and again is not the discussion.
All in all, why do you avoid the discussion which were male medals in 3000m, 5000m, 10.000m? This is quite frankly very weird. Its not the best way to participate in a discussion.
Despite what you say I think the US has great potential in medalling in these distances. Just now in 2022 you have great talents like Fisher, Klecker, Chelimo. You've had Rupp. I strongly disagree with your assertion that you shouldn't expect more medals.
1) Because Japan is a great direct competitor to the US, as far as nations with top resources. Japan has had far worse results than the US on the track, despite much more interest and participation, per capita. There is nothing misguided about it, when your first question is “out of how many?”. The US has 40 million who identify as joggers or participated in jogging. Approx 1/10. Japan 1/5 of the population is runners. This is just one industrialized nation as an example of how the US pool is not as large as you think.
2) I brought up the 800 in response to the original poster who YOU responded to. The sprints and throws just show that USATF has had wild success. Just because they have not swept the distance events doesn’t mean the US isn’t BY FAR the most successful track and field nation, and it isn’t close.
3) I don’t need to reiterate RunningArt’s comment that Galen Rupp and Evan Jager won medals. That speaks for itself. The last 10-15 years, US born distance runners (yes, 3k-10k) have encompassed the 2-4th best nation in the world, based on results. Considering the talent pool, it is the best non African nation, and as I stated, that is BECAUSE of the large resources.
4) You don’t get to conveniently ignore women in discussions like this. Their success matters and is part of the USATF model. In fact, I would argue that their proportionally higher success is a strength of the developmental program, and it should be lauded.
5) The US has had as many medals as expected, and perhaps more when you count Centrowitz’s gold, Manzano’s silver (came through the American System).
You don’t get to conveniently ignore the 800/1500 and act like the US has had a poor distance running scene. Do you expect one nation to dominate every event, at every level? That is statistically unlikely, and the as I stated the US population participation is NOT high enough to expect this. They are competing against the rest of the WORLD.
Why would he do a 17th repeat with kipchirchir and then a 200 race with that other loudmouth? Why risk injury after completion of the prescribed session? This is very unprofessional and foolhardy behaviour.
30,000 includes all athletes, between 10-15% of of which are international athletes. This number is even higher at the top end, D1 level. A huge portion of this 30,000 is D3 athletes with no intent of running professionally.
Furthermore, when you consider that 25 MILLION Japanese identify as runners as their primary sport, does 30,000 seem like a large number to you?
The US is, undoubtedly and far and away, the most successful nation in Track and Field and Athletics, at every level. This is not even close. And please check out the success of the US in the sprint and throws events during those years they weren’t winning distance races.
East Africans have dominated the distance races since the 90s. They've dominated every distance, and every other country. This is in part due to genetics, in part due to rampant doping. The US has been the most successful non-African nation, even without WCAP. As the other posted noted, you are missing MANY medalists, and that’s just at 800. Kara Goucher, Shalane Flanagan, Emily Infeld, the list goes on. You don’t get to conveniently ignore half the population (women) in your argument.
Why are you comparing the NCAA with japanese hobby joggers? The true comparison would be how many americans which identify as joggers, not how many there is in the NCAA. Why are you make blatantly misguided arguments like that?
Why are you talking about sprint and throws? Thats not the discussion here.
Why are you talking about 800 meters again? Again this is not the discussion. Why do you mention Goucher and Flanagan and Infeld? These are not men, and again is not the discussion.
All in all, why do you avoid the discussion which were male medals in 3000m, 5000m, 10.000m? This is quite frankly very weird. Its not the best way to participate in a discussion.
Despite what you say I think the US has great potential in medalling in these distances. Just now in 2022 you have great talents like Fisher, Klecker, Chelimo. You've had Rupp. I strongly disagree with your assertion that you shouldn't expect more medals.
You’re annoying as heck and I’m glad you lost this one.