Girls 800 National High School Champ Speaks Out About Transgenders in Sports

This (GD's post with numbered items which I won't quote here to save space) is by far the most intelligent and well-argued summary of the trans issue I've read on this site. We should sticky it on top of any thread on this topic.

You are a complete 🤡🖕

Lenny,

Your argument about sports being inherently unequal has been addressed several times on the boards and by various experts in the public arena. We separate sports based on biological sex because, if we did not, women would rarely have the chance to win, and meaningful competiton for them would be eliminated.

Human beings come in two distinct morphologies: male and female. These categories are discrete, not continuous. They also determine maximum strength, speed, heart & lung capacity, and many other physiological traits when all other factors are held constant.

Suppose we had two sets of DNA that are exactly the same, except that one individual has an SRY gene and the other does not. The one with an SRY gene will develop as a male. Even if his theoretical clone sister is raised in the exact same enviornment with the same experiences, he will outperform her in sports. In other words, males outperform females when we hold all other non-sex-linked traits constant.

It's very frustrating to have to argue that females are a real and distinct type of human being in 2022. This is the most misogynist crap I've ever confronted in my life, and I went to high school at a time when a guy grabbing a girl's ass in the hallway was considered obnoxious but nothing you'd usually report to a teacher or principal.

Don't forget that Phelps had advantages and Lia has a female penis...

Hey Lenny, 🖕

I don't have anything against the T people.

But like Dave Chappelle, I just want them to know...

that I know...

that's NOT real p*ssy down there.

When you're best argument for trans inclusion is that girls shouldn't care about and should be used to losing, you might evaluate using you're own brain instead of the Squad to develop moral stances.

You're argument is "hey, girls, I don't have an actual argument, so you just shouldn't care if you lose to boys." If you can't explain how trans competing is fair, then you are on the wrong side.

Dutch Sprinter wrote:

When you're best argument for trans inclusion is that girls shouldn't care about and should be used to losing, you might evaluate using you're own brain instead of the Squad to develop moral stances.

You're argument is "hey, girls, I don't have an actual argument, so you just shouldn't care if you lose to boys." If you can't explain how trans competing is fair, then you are on the wrong side.

I'm with you except grammatically. When you write a contraction like you're, check if it would be correct uncontacted. "You are argument" should be "your argument".

Nevertheless, you are correct about the issue.

We shouldn't have women train for 10 years, then hand the title to the biggest jerk willing to step in.

The only argument is to try harder. But if that is the argument, there should be no female category or age groups.

Yeah, your* . You caught me. I'm usually exception with contractions. That's embarrassing.

CrispyChicken wrote:

She’s risking her scholarship by saying that Andy Murray could beat Sarina Williams 0,O? Why would anyone care?

Ah, No, she's risking be canceled and losing future opportunities, by stating her belief and advocating that biological boys (men) should not compete against biological girls (women).

I read her letter again and like Vickie Huber, she makes a case that men are better athletes than women,but everyone already knows that. Is anyone on LR surprised that Sarina Williams admits Andy Murray could blow her off the court?

Presumably her letter is in response to Lia Thomas competing but the NCAA, and any other sports authority, is well aware that men are better athletes. Nance Hogshead Makar addressed the issue with Thomas directly which is the fact that hormone treatment have not even remotely leveled the playing field after Lia’s transition. The NCAA believes the banning of transgender athletes won’t be defensible in court so it hoped the requirement of hormone treatments would limit the advantage male athletes have, but it failed miserably in Thomas’ case. That about 500 male tennis players could beat Williams in straight sets has absolutely nothing to do with what happens next with Thomas.

It should be noted that Erzen didn’t actually run against any of the 85 boys that had faster 800m times than her at that one meet.

Is she saying that men are better than women in sports?

Yes, John McEnroe agrees, but very few people agree with that statement. But he is an old white guy.

I saw McEnroe being asked to apologize for that statement on TV

She may need to apologize for saying that

Let me help you out. Transphobia definition- fear of transgender people. Those of us against men claiming they are women is sports has nothing to do with fear. It has to do with basic science and biology. It is not possible for a man to become a female.

This whole gender is a socia construct is ridiculous. People would call someone crazy if they said they identify as a dog so everyone must accept that they are a dog. But these same people would support and affirm that same person if he is a male who says he identifies as a female. Even if a man identifies as a woman, and lives his life as a woman, after he dies and years later a forensic anthropologist were to examine his bones they would determine the body is male based on the skeletal remains, especially by examining the pubis bone and skull.

If a man identifies with a female then he suffers from a mental disorder - gender dysphoria. That man should be treated for this mental disorder.

Biological men have no place in women’s sports.

Everyone seems to be ok with transgenders competing as females. Until their daughter lines up against one.

There should be a simple hormone test. If there is a certain level of Testosterone, then the competitor is a male. Case closed.

I’m specifically talking about T&F, but the getting cut from the team aspect, honestly just add another player. Your worried in your HS that 5 trans women are going to go out for the basketball team? Again, nobody is trans to game the system or win medals, and overwhelmingly they are a vulnerable population of people who often suffer abuse and scorn. At the level of HS sports and below I strongly believe the overall good out weighs the bad by simply letting them compete as they feel comfortable. I fully acknowledge there are biological differences that cannot be erased regardless of hormones, and as we move into competition levels tied to material gains, the biological fairness imperative becomes paramount. Our theoretical trans 800m runner would not be allowed to compete in D1 female sports. Yes, this will cause this person some injury, but I think the tables have turned and the greater good is served. Not everybody can have everything. The exact point to draw the line could be argued and might differ sport to sport.

As for you become furious about being beaten in your hobby jogger race. Seriously? You need to get some perspective. This level of meaningless recreational activity should be open to all. You can still pr right? I’m sorry but in this case your pleasure in bringing home the gold is easily outweighed by being inclusive and welcoming to your trans community member.

I suggest you purchase a dictionary as you do not quite understand the definition of the Greek root "phobia." Also, gender dysphoria is not considered a mental disorder, at least not by scientists. Aren't Republicans in love with "THE SCIENCE," these days?

Dutch Sprinter wrote:

When you're best argument for trans inclusion is that girls shouldn't care about and should be used to losing, you might evaluate using you're own brain instead of the Squad to develop moral stances.

You're argument is "hey, girls, I don't have an actual argument, so you just shouldn't care if you lose to boys." If you can't explain how trans competing is fair, then you are on the wrong side.

I've stated this before on the boards, but sports are not "fair." The fastest shouldn't have to wear weight vests to make them slower. The slowest shouldn't get a head start. That would be "fair" and create a world where everyone has an equal chance at winning.

The problem is we can't agree what the "equitable outcome" is that we are looking for.

People like you, who don't want transpeople to compete, see equitable outcomes as "chances to win."

I see the equitable outcome as "chances to run/jump/throw."

Sports have NEVER had equity in "chances to win," but there has been almost complete "chances to run/jump/throw" equity since the creation of Title IX. Having a transgender athlete compete in his/her/their chosen gender in a race doesn't get in the way of the fairness of sport.

Lenny

I agree with you far more than I disagree, but don’t you think the definition of equitable outcome should change based on the level of competition? For youth sports and old hobby joggers it’s obvious to me that the chance to compete that maximizes inclusion and affirms personal dignity should prevail, but among pro runners, the chance to win is critical and should lead to a different set of rules.

The only fallacy in your argument is that sports have only 1 (or wrestling has weight classes) designation to be able to compete: gender. Because one gender is far superior to the other when it comes to any sport involving strength, size, and speed, and equity (fairness) is based on only on gender. No one cares about your height or other natural advantages as long as you compete in the correct equitable (fairness) category. And we only have two of those, male and female. Beyond that, no one gives a rip if a few elite girls are inequitably more talented than the others. The only equity we care about is male and female categories.

What else do you think it means to be female? To simply think you are female? Can you point out something else in life where if you simply "think" it, then you are it?

It's the exact same scenario as if we held Olympics based on time. We could have the "sub-10" category, the 10-10.5 category, and so on. If a sub-10 runner wanted to run with the 10.5 category, we'd say "no, because you don't qualify based on the criteria of th category." It doesn't matter what you THINK you are. It only matters what you are, which is born male.

Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Millions of other people have said just that and a national poll indicated 62% are opposed to allowing transgender females in the womens division. Why would she be singled out for punishment? I’m not offended by what she wrote and neither are you, so why do think any coach or AD would care?

There are some "woke" schools (like UPenn) who may care. But there are far more schools like Univ. of Arkansas who wouldn't. And that's the beauty of this great country called the United States of America. Some agree with your opinions, and others don't. And they can all coexist.

I was not offended by what she wrote. I was not offended by what Brooke Forde wrote, either. They don't need adult men like us to tell them what they should think.

What men are telling women what to think about transgender athletes? The majority of articles I have read about Thomas, have been very critical of her and virtually all of them at least note she is extremely more competitive as a female. There has been tremendous pressure on the NCAA to ban Thomas and I’m pretty sure most of it has come from men.

The idea that some woke mob has created this issue is nonsense. It all started from a court decision in the 70s and at that time, “woke” meant not being asleep.