10K XC: Mantz vs. Jakob

A second opinion wrote:

A second opinion wrote:

Mantz would win on a hilly cross country course, and Ingebritson would probably win on a flat course like they ran yesterday,

SDSU Aztec wrote:

What makes you think Jacob would suck at climbing hills? With his turnover and strength, he could gap Mantz on any hill he wanted. If they ran hill repeats in a workout, Mantz would be embarrassed.

Check the hill at 6:00, 12:00, 18:00, and 23:30 to the finish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CTPeg0nyC8

Thanks. I think many responders here didn't watch that in 2019, or they wouldn't be so high on Jakob in cross country. I remember it well, that's why I'd pick Mantz.

Lol. No. Jakobs worst discipline is playing Fortnite. He really sucks at it. His sister has beaten him.

Mantz will never beat Jakob at any distance, in any race, on any course.

OozmaKappa wrote:

I'd sooner believe Kiplimo could run 3:26

You'd be pretty stupid in that assumption. Kiplimo is maxed out already at the 1500. There's a good reason why he hasn't raced a 1500 in a long time and his PR is still 3:50...that's likely because he and his coach (who knows way more than anyone here about this athlete) don't think he can seriously run a time that warrants focus on it unlike Jakob who is the Olympic Champion and one of the fastest ever at the distance. You can always work on your strength. If you think a guy like Jakob who's run sub 12:50 can't run a very fast 10000 off of his training regimen which is strength based then you don't know anything about distance running and should just log off of LR.

neednewdeck wrote:

A second opinion wrote:

Check the hill at 6:00, 12:00, 18:00, and 23:30 to the finish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CTPeg0nyC8

Thanks. I think many responders here didn't watch that in 2019, or they wouldn't be so high on Jakob in cross country. I remember it well, that's why I'd pick Mantz.

You don't know the circumstances of the build or the shape he was in. If he was in good form he would have been in the senior race, clearly he wasn't. Mantz is a guy that could not even make the men's US Olympic team which has no shot at the medals at any distance and he can't even dream of running 12:50...if they are both focused on a single race Mantz would not even have a chance in his own mind. They aren't on the same level. On top of that he's like 5 years older, he'll never be better than Jakob at any point in his career.

World XC was 2 years and 8 months ago. Jakob is considerably better now. It's true that he struggled with the hills then and there is probably some XC course where far weaker track runners might beat him.

Nevertheless, two of the best runners representing European countries in the 2019 World XC were Oumaiz/ESP at 20th and Kaya/TUR (26th) and Jakob beat both Oumaiz in the Euro u20 XC in Dec 2018 and Kaya last sunday in the senior race easily.

On an average XC course, even muddy European, that is not mountain race, Jakob will beat Mantz, on a manicured dry typical US course he would destroy him.

I haven't read the responses but here's what I wish:

1. I wish I were a billionaire

2. If I were, I would set up a prize money, appearance fee structure for the World Cross to get the best 7 (yes, 7, XC is 7) runners from each nation to run.

Then we can find out who is actually the best over the purest discipline.

3. Oh and in the process I would have 4-8 Regional Meets to get the best teams and individuals to World Meet.

Alas, I'm 62 with little hope of ever becoming a billionaire. = (

neednewdeck wrote:

A second opinion wrote:

Check the hill at 6:00, 12:00, 18:00, and 23:30 to the finish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CTPeg0nyC8

Thanks. I think many responders here didn't watch that in 2019, or they wouldn't be so high on Jakob in cross country. I remember it well, that's why I'd pick Mantz.

Are there studies that show that one of two equally fast 10000m runners is significantly better than the other in running hills? In my section, there were 2 very hilly invitational courses and one that was flat as a board but it was always the same runners out in front. I went to Humboldt State on a recruiting trip and one of their runners told me that they had designed a ridiculously hilly course for a duel meet with U.C. Davis. The Aggies, from flat as a board Davis, took the meet.

The Walmsley fan club predicted that he would make the team because of the hilly Atlanta course, but based on his HM PR, he didn't receive any benefit from the hills compared to other runners.

If Jacob was struggling running the hills, he wasn't probably wasn't doing much better on the flat sections.

ShilohDoesntCare wrote:

OozmaKappa wrote:

I'd sooner believe Kiplimo could run 3:26

You'd be pretty stupid in that assumption. Kiplimo is maxed out already at the 1500. There's a good reason why he hasn't raced a 1500 in a long time and his PR is still 3:50...that's likely because he and his coach (who knows way more than anyone here about this athlete) don't think he can seriously run a time that warrants focus on it unlike Jakob who is the Olympic Champion and one of the fastest ever at the distance. You can always work on your strength. If you think a guy like Jakob who's run sub 12:50 can't run a very fast 10000 off of his training regimen which is strength based then you don't know anything about distance running and should just log off of LR.

Kiplimo would be a better miler than Pillsbury Doughboy, if he cared. He doesn't, because he'd rather focus on running with the big boys instead. And lets not forget Kiplimo has a faster 3000m pr. If ANYONE is close to maxing out their speed, its Yakob.

#KiplimoThe GOAT

The 1500m is the most prestigious distance event and if Kiplomo wants to take on Jacob, he knows where to find him. In 1984, Aouita didn't want to deal with Coe so he ran the 5000m instead.

Wait! Rudyard Kipling runs XC? Didn't that guy die a few decades ago?

Cool match up would be Kim against Mowgli over 400m hurdles. Who you got?

Jakob would have to loose 15 pounds to beat Kipling over 10k xc[/quote]

neednewdeck wrote:

"Jakob isn't a proven world-class commodity in cross country.

He put in a good effort in the U20 race at World Cross Aarhus, but was put to shame by 11 others. If you click on the names of the finishers ahead of him there, many still don't have top class performances. Like I said earlier in this thread, I'd take Mantz in a "real" cross country race with meaningful hills like the Aarhus course."

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Let me understand you right:

Do you think a 22 year old Conner Mantz could have beaten an 18 year old Jakob in Aarhus 2019?

Or do you think a 25year old Mantz could beat 21 year old Jakob if they had run the Aarhus course last sunday?

-----------------

It is true that none of the East Africans who beat Jakob are top class athletes BUT neither is Conner Mantz.

AND:

The winner Mengesha, however, has run 12:58 in the 5000m this year and at 21 was an Olympic 5000m finalist.

Number 2 in Aarhus Worku ran 13:18 in the 5000m at 17 and has run 26:58 in the 10,000m

Number 3 Oscar Chelimo (Jakob Kiplimo´s younger brother) has run 13:07 in the 5000m at 19.

Number 4 Leonard Bett has medals in U18 2000m steeplechase and U20 3000m steeplechase (gold and silber). Bett has run 8:08 in the 3000m st.

So at least these athletes are way better than Mantz even though the oldest of them is still only 21.

ShilohDoesntCare wrote:

neednewdeck wrote:

Thanks. I think many responders here didn't watch that in 2019, or they wouldn't be so high on Jakob in cross country. I remember it well, that's why I'd pick Mantz.

You don't know the circumstances of the build or the shape he was in. If he was in good form he would have been in the senior race, clearly he wasn't. Mantz is a guy that could not even make the men's US Olympic team which has no shot at the medals at any distance and he can't even dream of running 12:50...if they are both focused on a single race Mantz would not even have a chance in his own mind. They aren't on the same level. On top of that he's like 5 years older, he'll never be better than Jakob at any point in his career.

Watch that whole race. He was a favorite and his form was fine. The commentators were in the know and we’re expecting a good performance from him. The reason he was falling behind on the steep hill is the same reason Filipino Ganna, the most amazing, strongest pursuit track cyclist (should get the famed hour record whenever he is willing to go for it), gets dropped in the hardest climbs. Ganna is bigger than the better climbers. So is Jakob. This is not fat shaming. He is 13cm taller than Mantz and even more over the Africans who pulled away from him, many with Kiptoo, Mantz, or slower track creds. It’s pretty clear what’s happening watching that video - exactly the same as what happens when a guy like Ganna gets dropped by much slower track guys. Cross country running isn’t alway as selective as the Aarhus course, but that’s real xc, and I’d pick Mantz on that course for that reason.

Agreed...

Plus Jakob's hair never is out place during the race. How does he do that?

Mowgli would beat Jakob in a 10 k jungle race!

WOW - he's really old wrote:

Olympic champion Jakob is younger than the 25 year old college junior mantz was as a freshman all those years ago.

Exactly.

Mantz already screwed up an Oly year. He has one more before he's running 2:12 'thons being an afterthought.

Name the last BYU distance dude in an Olympics.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

OozmaKappa wrote:

Kiplimo would be a better miler than Pillsbury Doughboy, if he cared. He doesn't, because he'd rather focus on running with the big boys instead. And lets not forget Kiplimo has a faster 3000m pr. If ANYONE is close to maxing out their speed, its Yakob.

#KiplimoThe GOAT

The 1500m is the most prestigious distance event.

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA wait do you actually believe that?

OozmaKappa wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

The 1500m is the most prestigious distance event.

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA wait do you actually believe that?

Lol. of course not. the 4000m is.