UPenn swimmer comes out as trans / switches to women's team after competing on men's team for 3 years and is dominating NCAA

I don't people these two athletes are good comps for before and after performance.

Armin Tamzarian wrote:

OozmaKappa wrote:

Being forced to compete with men in sports is a violation of womens rights.

I agree.

But Lia Thomas is a woman, so no rights are violated.

+1

Hopefully she makes the next Olympic team.

Have a separate Transgender category. Simple!

dumb move wrote:

The future of women’s sports is men.

Feminists need to stop, not encourage this.

Not sure feminists are encouraging it. Maybe young clueless ones, but it's mostly trans activists themselves (mostly men identifying as women) and 'cis' left-wing males like Trollism.

Feminists created the trans rights movement in order to inflict harm on men and 'the patriarchy', but they lost control of it some time ago.

Coevett wrote:

dumb move wrote:

The future of women’s sports is men.

Feminists need to stop, not encourage this.

Not sure feminists are encouraging it. Maybe young clueless ones, but it's mostly trans activists themselves (mostly men identifying as women) and 'cis' left-wing males like Trollism.

Feminists created the trans rights movement in order to inflict harm on men and 'the patriarchy', but they lost control of it some time ago.

They didn't 'create it', trans people are legitimate. But most feminists support trans rights as they do gay rights because it undermines traditional conceptions of what it means to be a woman and rejects biological determinism - which is what many sexist arguments are based on - girls can't do triple jump because... biology. Women can't run marathons because.... biology.

Some feminists have regressed to supporting biological determinism for womanhood. They call themselves "gender-critical" feminists. Thankfully only a minority of feminists in the US are anti-trans but sadly the main feminist figures in the UK and Australia are of that viewpoint right now.

Owain Lewes wrote:

Have a separate Transgender category. Simple!

That's happened and all the transphobes came out to oppose that as well.

Coevett wrote:

dumb move wrote:

The future of women’s sports is men.

Feminists need to stop, not encourage this.

Not sure feminists are encouraging it. Maybe young clueless ones, but it's mostly trans activists themselves (mostly men identifying as women) and 'cis' left-wing males like Trollism.

Feminists created the trans rights movement in order to inflict harm on men and 'the patriarchy', but they lost control of it some time ago.

Transwomen are women. If you’re a feminist, you support women.

Ergo, if you are a feminist, you support transwomen.

If you don’t support transwomen, you’re not a feminist. You’re just bigoted.

Dewey Welll wrote:

“Being trans has not affected my ability to do this sport and being able to continue is very rewarding,” Thomas told Penn Today."

What a self-centered, selfish, delusional person. No on, but NO ONE says you can't continue to compete with men-your true sex. However, he wants to beat up on women and, not only brag about it, but get "rewarded" for it. He is sick, but not as sick as those who support it.

50 years ago this wouldn't have been allowed, this guy would have been harassed, scorned, ridiculed, shamed into oblivion and maybe that would be a good thing.

This is another topic that has lost all nuance and has become black and white. It is not. I'm conflicted myself.

I'm 100% for trans rights. They should be recognized as the gender they request, shouldn't be discriminated against in school, employment, or legally.

At the same time I recognize that there are biological advantages they have that makes it unfair, in the realm of physical competition, to allow them to compete against biological females

Believing that trans females don't belong in the woman's division of sport isn't the same as saying they aren't legitimate females.

Beats school record by six seconds.

https://pennathletics.com/sports/2019/11/14/womens-swimming-top-times.aspx

dhe8282uehdh wrote:

This is another topic that has lost all nuance and has become black and white. It is not. I'm conflicted myself.

I'm 100% for trans rights. They should be recognized as the gender they request, shouldn't be discriminated against in school, employment, or legally.

At the same time I recognize that there are biological advantages they have that makes it unfair, in the realm of physical competition, to allow them to compete against biological females

Believing that trans females don't belong in the woman's division of sport isn't the same as saying they aren't legitimate females.

The reason you feel conflicted is because your last sentence reveals the mistake in your stance.

If you don't think transfemales belong in the women's division of sport, then it means you don't think they are legitimate females. You can't have it both ways. So you have to make a choice about which side you are on. Thats not my decision to make for you, but once you do that, you won't have this "conflict" anymore.

For me, I see transfemales as females in all aspects of their lives, even sports. It makes complete logical sense to me to just be consistent in my view of a person's identity.

Lenny Leonard wrote:

dhe8282uehdh wrote:

Believing that trans females don't belong in the woman's division of sport isn't the same as saying they aren't legitimate females.

The reason you feel conflicted is because your last sentence reveals the mistake in your stance.

If you don't think transfemales belong in the women's division of sport, then it means you don't think they are legitimate females. You can't have it both ways. So you have to make a choice about which side you are on. Thats not my decision to make for you, but once you do that, you won't have this "conflict" anymore.

For me, I see transfemales as females in all aspects of their lives, even sports. It makes complete logical sense to me to just be consistent in my view of a person's identity.

Your mistake is conflating sex (biological) and gender (social).

Accepting people as whatever gender they choose to adopt is the tolerant, polite, and decent thing to do.

Accepting people as whatever sex matches their self-chosen gender is delusional. This is Orwellian-level redefinition of reality.

Biologically they are not and that leads directly to basic issues of fairness in sports. Facts are stubborn things, but facts all the same. Sorry but this is a very easy call. You can respect a person's rights, but also recognize that this has to be balanced with the rights of other. Women should not have to compete with biological men. The end. This athlete is a selfish jerk who has no business in women's sports. Respecting a person's rights does not permit mistreating others.

And to be blunt, this whole issue is a pathetic sideshow where people are desperately looking for a cause. Who cares about a person's identity or sense of self? Just navel-gazing self-importance.

I can't imagine being so far down the trans rabbit hole to actually defend something like this.

It's also a crying shame we seemed to go from 1950s 'treat them like garbage' to 2020s 'promote them as heroes'. It's too bad there was never the 'love them and help them' in between that we have adopted for every other mental illness.

Uh oh, he just called it a mental illness. Lock him up!

Holly came from Miami, F.L.A.

Hitch-hiked her way across the U.S.A.

Plucked her eyebrows on the way

Shaved her legs and then he was a she

She says, "Hey babe, take a walk on the wild side"

Said, "Hey honey, take a walk on the wild side"

Reply to last.

Just so we are clear about the extent of the domination that we are seeing in this case, from a recent event:

"The victory in the 400 free relay put an exclamation point on a big day for Thomas, as she won three events, set a pair of program records and posted the top time in the NCAA in two events. Thomas touched fist in the 200 free at 1:43.47. It was the fastest mark in the NCAA in the event this season and a new program best. She also finished first in the 500 free with a program record time of 4:35.06. She won the 500 free by over 12 seconds and her mark was the fastest in the NCAA this year. Thomas also added a victory in the 100 free (49.42)."

Again, I hope that she DESTROYS records left and right, setting times that a biological female will likely never touch, and wins several NCAA events by ridiculous margins.

This will never come to a head if trans women are finishing in the middle of the pack.

Interesting how the athletic department hasn't included any meaningful details on her Bio page on the roster:

https://pennathletics.com/sports/womens-swimming-and-diving/roster/lia-thomas/19456

...as compared to the other seniors, like this one:

https://pennathletics.com/sports/womens-swimming-and-diving/roster/monika-burzynska/19615

And compounding this nonsense, if any of the female athletes spoke up for themselves they would immediately be thrown off the team, dragged before the dean of equity, forced to issue a groveling apology and accused of bigotry. All because they said what everyone knows, that this is a travesty. It is just pure bullying all around.