15 year old mows down runner, leaves for dead, later laughs about it

malmo wrote:

Smoove wrote:

Look, I’m not saying that these parents are perfect. How a 15 year old managed to sneak out of the house and use a car without permission at 6:30 in the morning raises plenty of questions.

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I agree with you about what you said about the development of the adolescent mind, but to this first paragraph. Kids sneaking out to drive the family car without permission happens thousands of times every day. Usually its the child who ends up dead.

My friend at 13 did this and ended up driving the car up the sidewalk and smashing into a tree, which fortunately he survived, only having to have dental surgery, and became an upstanding citizen. But the number of people nearly killing runners out of carelessness or thoughtlessness probably far, far exceeds those trying to kill or scare runners. I had three near misses in a row, on successive streets/parking lot exits, on the rainy run home from work the other day. Where possible, you should always wear bright clothes (which I do), run behind, rather than in front of, cars that are supposed to be stopping at a stop sign, and choose running routes as much as possible away from vehicles.

Covid Cop wrote:

The reality is people are getting crazier and crazier. Covid crazy has really done a number. I now stick to 25 mph neighborhoods, sparingly used trails, and the treadmill. Also I always carry my phone with me now. I’m considering pepper spray too. America has turned into a Mad Max movie. We need to prepare accordingly.

I've been driving since 1970, that's 51 years. One thing I've noticed in the last 5-10 years is that drivers have become increasingly aggressive and dangerous. They speed, tailgate, make dangerous lane changes, don't merge peacefully. It's crazy. Since most of them are young perhaps it's the Fast and Furious effect? The net result is that the roads have never been more dangerous than now.

None of us are going to get to our destination not one second before we get there.

Hurdles400m wrote:

Posters may or may not remember Steve Heidenriech, a standout middle distance South Dakota high school and University of Indiana track runner, who was struck by a hit and run driver back in 1976 and spent 14 days in a coma right before the 1976 Olympics:

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He had been hit in two separate incidences.

malmo wrote:

Covid Cop wrote:

The reality is people are getting crazier and crazier. Covid crazy has really done a number. I now stick to 25 mph neighborhoods, sparingly used trails, and the treadmill. Also I always carry my phone with me now. I’m considering pepper spray too. America has turned into a Mad Max movie. We need to prepare accordingly.

I've been driving since 1970, that's 51 years. One thing I've noticed in the last 5-10 years is that drivers have become increasingly aggressive and dangerous. They speed, tailgate, make dangerous lane changes, don't merge peacefully. It's crazy. Since most of them are young perhaps it's the Fast and Furious effect? The net result is that the roads have never been more dangerous than now.

None of us are going to get to our destination not one second before we get there.

Saturday night, as I came to a light it was a steady green onto a main thoroughfare. I glanced to my left and saw lights still moving and decided to wait at the light. The car went right through and probably would have T-Boned me. The next day, my neighbor was witness to the exact same scenario when a woman drove through a steady red and T-Boned a pickup truck turning left onto the cross street....without touching the brakes.

Runners, cyclist, other endurance athletes, we are connected and financially well off. Point being, we should start lobbying for harder sentencing. I think it could be quite successful

malmo wrote:

good investment wrote:

Always run against traffic.

It says the back of calves were consistent with bumper hitting them. Always give yourself the chance to jump out of the way.

Always! And.....always be prepared to dive into the bushes if an approaching car veers off the road. Remermber 99.9% of the time the driver isn't intentionally trying to hit you.

I have had to do exactly that when cars came at me.

A friend and training partner was killed by a driver while out running - and he was on a sidewalk.

I usually drive miles out of my way to run on trails instead.

Sham 69 wrote:

Smoove wrote:

Look, I’m not saying that these parents are perfect. How a 15 year old managed to sneak out of the house and use a car without permission at 6:30 in the morning raises plenty of questions.

This literally happens all. the. time. in America.

No dude, this is not normal. Anyone doing something like that has something wrong with their brain.

Running over someone for fun on top of that? Give her the death penalty.

malmo wrote:

Covid Cop wrote:

The reality is people are getting crazier and crazier. Covid crazy has really done a number. I now stick to 25 mph neighborhoods, sparingly used trails, and the treadmill. Also I always carry my phone with me now. I’m considering pepper spray too. America has turned into a Mad Max movie. We need to prepare accordingly.

I've been driving since 1970, that's 51 years. One thing I've noticed in the last 5-10 years is that drivers have become increasingly aggressive and dangerous. They speed, tailgate, make dangerous lane changes, don't merge peacefully. It's crazy. Since most of them are young perhaps it's the Fast and Furious effect? The net result is that the roads have never been more dangerous than now.

None of us are going to get to our destination not one second before we get there.

Don’t blame movies. It doesn’t occur to you how different cars are with antilock brakes, power steering, fuel injection, etc? The fastest street-legal car was probably around 5s 0-60 in your day with most cars > 10s. I had a station wagon at one point that was 5.9s.

It’s easy to drive fast now. Couple that with significant population growth and changing mores and there you go.

malmo wrote:

Covid Cop wrote:

The reality is people are getting crazier and crazier. Covid crazy has really done a number. I now stick to 25 mph neighborhoods, sparingly used trails, and the treadmill. Also I always carry my phone with me now. I’m considering pepper spray too. America has turned into a Mad Max movie. We need to prepare accordingly.

I've been driving since 1970, that's 51 years. One thing I've noticed in the last 5-10 years is that drivers have become increasingly aggressive and dangerous. They speed, tailgate, make dangerous lane changes, don't merge peacefully. It's crazy. Since most of them are young perhaps it's the Fast and Furious effect? The net result is that the roads have never been more dangerous than now.

None of us are going to get to our destination not one second before we get there.

For the record car fatality rates are <1/2 what they were in 1970 and the same as 10 years ago.

Granted, there was a pretty big spike with COVID in 2020, I think, but that's not a 5-10 year trend.

A lot of this is safer cars, but still... it's not like it's way more dangerous out there, stats don't lie.

When I was in high school in the 90s my uncle got killed by a car load of 16 year olds. It was in park with 20 mph speed limit. They were going between 80-100 is what the police report said. Hit him from behind and he probably never saw them coming. The driver got his license suspended for one year. Nothing more. Left my aunt a widow with a 3 year old and 3 month old.

malmo wrote:

She just wanted to scare the man. WTF is going on in the country?

Huh?Never heard of a criminal before?

This is a tragedy, but there's a lesson that all runners should learn from this incident.

Never run with your back to oncoming traffic.

According to the police report, the runner was running east on the 23800 block of Southeast 216th Way. The car was also going eastbound. The car's right front headlight and bumper were broken. Therefore, he was running on the right side of the road with his back to traffic and hit by the car's right bumper. Why was he running with his back to traffic?

I looked it up on google street view. There are 3 feet of pavement past the white line on the right side of the road at that location and only 1 foot on the left side of the road. Had he been running on the left (correct side of the road facing traffic) he would have constantly had to step off the shoulder when he met an oncoming car. That's probably why he was running on the right side.

That woman who was running coast to coast and killed in West Texas was also running with her back to traffic.

If your route forces you to run with your back to oncoming traffic, you need to find another route. There are FAR too many distracted drivers out there and then you have nutjobs like this girl. Sad.

Everyone gets what they deserve

Sham 69 wrote:

This is unbelievable. The 15 year old girl should be old enough to understand that the life of a man is NOT a laughing matter!

Unbelievable! a grown adult man on letsrun should be smart enough to understand that the vaccines work and to stop spreading misinformation!

Harambe wrote:

For the record car fatality rates are <1/2 what they were in 1970 and the same as 10 years ago.

Granted, there was a pretty big spike with COVID in 2020, I think, but that's not a 5-10 year trend.

A lot of this is safer cars, but still... it's not like it's way more dangerous out there, stats don't lie.

Now do pedestrian traffic fatalities.

Life in prison, though she deserves the death penalty.

colder and wiser wrote:

Harambe wrote:

For the record car fatality rates are <1/2 what they were in 1970 and the same as 10 years ago.

Granted, there was a pretty big spike with COVID in 2020, I think, but that's not a 5-10 year trend.

A lot of this is safer cars, but still... it's not like it's way more dangerous out there, stats don't lie.

Now do pedestrian traffic fatalities.

Things have gotten worse. They are now back to ~1980 levels of death as a fraction of total road deaths.

6200 last year vs the low of ~4300 in 2009

malmo wrote:

Which brings up the question, have any of you had a similar close calls?

I've never had a serious close call. However...

When I was in college, I sometimes did some weekend runs alone, and one night I was doing one where I was running on 25 MPH streets, and a car full of what turned out to be HS kids kept going around the block and swerving at me...and laughing of course. It was easy for me to jump up over the curb, so I didn't think too much of it and figured they would eventually quit. Well, they didn't. After the 5th bit of swerving at me, I hid behind a bush the next time and then ran behind the car and read the license plate out loud to them (they had their windows down) and then yelled "you're busted!" The driver of the car stopped immediately and got out and started crying saying that his Dad would kill him if I reported this to the police. He even said he'd give me money. Well, too bad. I reported it to the police. The police officer (city police office, not campus police) came to my dorm room later that night and told me I could press charges if I wanted to but that the judge didn't usually go along with eyewitness accounts but that also this kid's father told him he was going to beat his kid to within an inch of his life. So, I don't know how much of that police officer's story was true, but the kid did seem genuinely afraid of his father, so I let it go there.

Anyway, I do not run on any streets at all anymore. It's just too dangerous. Drunks, distracted drivers, a$$holes who don't care about the lives of others, crazy people. No thanks. I know that runners WANT it to be ok and safe, but it isn't. I don't really want to run along with a bunch of pollution-creating cars anyway.