Serious discussion: Israel has the most cases of covid per capita in the world right now. What is going on?

I live in Israel for work and can fill in a few details missing from the reporting seen in the West.

Part of the reason for the high caseload is, yes, Israel's high testing rate. But that's far from the whole story. Put simply, no one in Israel follows any public health rules. Mask wearing, social distancing, quarantining -- all these things average Israelis treat like an enormous joke. In the university where I work, you can walk into the main library and find maybe ten percent of people wearing masks, this in spite of omnipresent signage reminding library users of a countrywide mask mandate. Even the person in charge of reminding people to wear a mask doesn't always wear a mask himself. This is basically standard behavior in the country as a whole.

And attitudes towards covid don't seem to be politically driven in the same way they are in the US. People on the left in Israel seem just as likely as people on the right to disdain covid restrictions. The health ministry does their best to put rules in place, but they can only do so much when those rules are never enforced and no one tries to follow them. On the rare occasions I point out to Israelis that they might see lower levels of population-wide sickness through extremely easy acts such as mask-wearing, I get looks of bafflement and incomprehension. Most don't even seem to realize Israel has any kind of serious covid problem.

Of course, the waning efficacy of vaccines is a large part of the problem too, and something that seems already to be leading to new covid waves in largely vaccinated places outside Israel. But most of those countries won't likely see the sky-high infection rates Israel has in this latest wave. Only a special level of societal selfishness and stupidity produces infection rates of the sort Israel's seen lately. Most countries will avoid these infection rates simply by virtue of having a citizenry capable of basic common sense.

4 shots ! Think about that alone. These "vaccines" have been out for 9 months and there are calls for a 4th shot.

Very effective versus death ? Any data on how many of the vaccinated were previously infected before their shots ?

CDC estimates that over 120 Million Americans had been infected as of late May. Its probably close to half the population by now.

Thanks for that report from Israel

"Israel has the most cases of covid per capita in the world right now. What is going on?"

What's going on is simply that a "case" is a positive test. And Israel does extensive testing.

DanM wrote:

Very effective versus death ? Any data on how many of the vaccinated were previously infected before their shots ?

CDC estimates that over 120 Million Americans had been infected as of late May. Its probably close to half the population by now.

Good questions that the CDC and Pharma have the answers to but choose not to release. Best estimate of the second is 200 million by now (remember, this is a super-contagious virus that has been in circulation for over 20 months). The infected and now recovered SHOULD be well-protected unless it turns out that the jabs negatively affect T-cell immunity.

we have a very high vaccine rate in the uk and a very high daily case rate.

that correlation is not causation.

we have a very high testing rate (and huge CT) and a high daily case - that is correlation

we have a very high case rate and a very low death rate - that is negative correlation.

We only show stats for the pcr testing, for which we do up to 500 000 every day. these are done both routinely on essential workers - low positive rate. Ct is 45 or something ridiculous.

and also focussed on people who fail LFD. An essentially unlimited supply of LFD tests is available free. up to 7 tests per day. These results are not published - who knows how many of those are done every day on the uk? BUT if you fail a LFD then MUST get a PCR asap. Today is the first day in 10 days i pased an LFD test! But once you have failed a pcr (as i did last week) you are exempt for at least 90 days due to residual fragments.

Lockdowns have ended, no restrictions, no masks.........so maybe spabilising at just over 30 000 per day and with less than 100 deaths (of people who have pcr +ved in last 28 days) is a good thing?

36 000 x 28 = 1 000 000 ish. So in a year 12 million 'elligible' but 36 500 die. = 0.3% well, thats in the range of the mandatory turnover = expected

Its a fact that most of the deaths/hosp are among those with high risk health conditions over the age of 65. Again, this is a fact. Its a fact that those over 65 are the most vaxxed age group.

As of Aug 1, 2021 of 614,531 Total CV deaths int the USA. 83% had a co-morbidity, 40% had diabetes!

Deaths by age (remember 83% had a co-morbidity.)

0-17 only 361!

18-29 only 2,630

30-39 only 7,501

85+? 180,608 - me thinks they was on the way out anyway, right?

Over 65?= 485,10 deaths, most w/co-m! In the USA those 65 and older have the highest rate of vaccination among all age groups, with 87 percent having received at least one dose.

Is it time to just let the old and weak pass away? The effort and zeal we are expending to save all the sick, fat, old people is out of control unless you are a pharma exec.

Here's the link in case you want to do your own fact checking.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/

Have you by any chance read the US Constitution?

Never wordless chump. Vaccinated are spreading the virus in great numbers as Israel clearly confirms. That may be difficult for you to understand or perhaps contrary to data you try to push, but that’s reality. The more we get vaccinated, the more we spread the virus. It’s really that simple and a simple minded person as yourself should be able to get it.

Cyclone Taylor Swift wrote:

Put simply, no one in Israel follows any public health rules. Mask wearing, social distancing, quarantining -- all these things average Israelis treat like an enormous joke.

🤣My respect for Israel 📈📈📈

Harambe wrote:

Absolutely there can be transmission among vaccinated people. That's acknowledged.

It's about an order of magnitude less than unvaccinated people, maybe more.

Let's not go full stupid on every thread, bucko.

That's asking a lot.

Harambe wrote:

Absolutely there can be transmission among vaccinated people. That's acknowledged.

It's about an order of magnitude less than unvaccinated people, maybe more.

Let's not go full stupid on every thread, bucko.

Your first statement contradicts what you were saying not long ago Herr Fauci. I guess we are supposed to consider that progress. Your second statement is premature and unfounded. You always default to the vaccine as a panacea and relent long after the ship of truth has ended, unloaded it's cargo and sailed over the horizon. You would make an absolutely horrible actual science researcher.

Uprising wrote:

The infected and now recovered SHOULD be well-protected unless it turns out that the jabs negatively affect T-cell immunity.

They don't. Memory B and T cell response is strong in previously infected and vaccinated people.

Infection + 1 vaccine dose is the strongest protection we've seen so far.

OozmaKappa wrote:

And yet the case fatality rate is .6%, one of the lowest in the entire world.

For reference, in Norway it's .5% and in the US it's 1.6%.

Death rates are more important than cases. Number of cases is a worthless metric. Its only use is fearmongering. Seriously, that's just about the only thing it's good for.

+1

Death rates in the last 7 days are low too.

Poor Harambe.

Desperate to defend the lie.

As shown in the tweet below, Israeli Dr. Kobi Haviv told News Israel 13 on Thursday, August 5, that 95% of all Israelis suffering serious COVID symptoms are “fully vaccinated”: Here’s what he said:

“I understand that most of the patients are vaccinated, even ‘severe’ patients. Exactly. Naturally occurring. Old people, most of them are vaccinated,” .

“95% of the severe patients are vaccinated”.

“85-90% of the hospitalizations are in Fully vaccinated people.”

“We are opening more and more COVID wards.”

“The effectiveness of the vaccine is waning/fading out”

Dr Haviv’s findings are confirmed by similar findings in other countries, which is why I disagree with his conclusion that the effectiveness of the jabs is waning. Instead, I believe the data shows the jabs are causing COVID-19 infections, not preventing them. Here are a few examples:

A recent report from Massachusetts, USA, shows 74% of those infected had been jabbed.

NBC Chicago reported on July 19 in Illinois, USA, at least 151 “fully vaccinated” people have died from COVID and more than 500 other “fully vaccinated” people have been hospitalized in what is described as “breakthrough” cases, according to state health officials.

A recent report from Singapore shows 78% of people infected with COVID had already been jabbed.

Public Health England reports that jab victims accounted for 62% of COVID related deaths in the United Kingdom.

Hilarious to ask for this to be a "serious discussion" as though there was any chance it wouldn't devolve into the same pissing match among the same six people as every other thread

wejo wrote:

The beauty of these boards is you can point out to people where they are wrong and they and many others may change their beliefs.

They already believe what they believe.

Getting out the message you posted and what I said at the beginning (that vaccines are very effective vs death) is much more an effective message I believe for vaccine skeptics than saying no discussion allowed, the vaccine is perfect.

These people were skeptical to begin with likely. People overselling the vaccine and diminishing any side effects doesn't make these people get vaccinated. It makes them less likely to get vaccinated.

They already were starting threads mocking the calls for a 4th shot.

I agree that the misinformation should be swiftly rebutted. However, the people starting the threads aren't trying to foster good-faith discussion as you are doing here.

They are spamming tons of threads with all sorts of misinformation that basically matches the "red flags" this prof lays out here (he led the BIG mask RCTs that has the deniers really mad -- because masks work):

When we have several threads started around the same base-rate fallacy every day (vaccines don't work! more vaccinated people are hospitalized in a place where 95% of the over 50s are vaccinated!), it's clear the deniers and fearmongers are not trying to discuss things, just clog the boards up with misinformation, basic math errors, and so forth.

“boards up with misinformation, basic math errors, and so forth”

The math is actually quite simple. Just an old school direct correlation. The more we get vaccinated, the more positive cases we get. All the data in the World cannot muddle that basic truth.

Wejo....it is likely because of increased testing which goes beyond what much of the US does. For instance, I'm vaccinated and spent a fair amount of time in a house with someone who had the virus and was sick from it for roughly a week. No one else in the house had any symptoms and so we wore masks in any setting in which we'd be in, for instance, a store where we could infect others. We never were tested but I wouldn't be surprised if we had tested positive during the last couple of weeks.