THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
Of course this would turn into a doping thread on here. Let's put that aside.
+1
THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
Of course this would turn into a doping thread on here. Let's put that aside.
+1
Correction: 7:27.05 for Jakob last year. 7 seconds is a decent bit, but again I think Jakob was not in top form in that race. If he can get strong enough to break 12:50, I like his chances at this.
Armstronglivs wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
Maybe.
I just saw an NCAA analysis of the effect of super spikes, which suggests 1%, or 4.4 seconds.
If the Purdy and VDOT equivalency tables are anything to go by, a 7:20 for a 3000m is comparatively weak.
A record that has stood for over 2 decades is "comparatively weak". Compared to what?
The shoes will make him faster but not EPO - or any other kind of ped? Go back to your basement.
As everyone can see in my previous quote -- compared to the Purdy and VDOT scores for the 5000m world record.
rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
A record that has stood for over 2 decades is "comparatively weak". Compared to what?
The shoes will make him faster but not EPO - or any other kind of ped? Go back to your basement.
As everyone can see in my previous quote -- compared to the Purdy and VDOT scores for the 5000m world record.
So how many "soft" records last for a quarter of a century? Furthermore, no 5k world record-holder has gotten near it, nor have the best 1500 runners, including the holder of the record over that distance. But keep reading your tables, like you do. Don't let reality intrude.
rekrunner wrote:
THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
Of course this would turn into a doping thread on here. Let's put that aside.
+1
It can't be removed from the conversation. No record today is clean and only doping will beat a doped record.
Armstronglivs wrote:
So how many "soft" records last for a quarter of a century? Furthermore, no 5k world record-holder has gotten near it, nor have the best 1500 runners, including the holder of the record over that distance. But keep reading your tables, like you do. Don't let reality intrude.
Has anyone really tried? 3000m isn't a popular event.
Armstronglivs wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
+1
It can't be removed from the conversation. No record today is clean and only doping will beat a doped record.
-1
rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
It can't be removed from the conversation. No record today is clean and only doping will beat a doped record.
-1
Yet you think the shoes improve times substantially but not EPO.
rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
So how many "soft" records last for a quarter of a century? Furthermore, no 5k world record-holder has gotten near it, nor have the best 1500 runners, including the holder of the record over that distance. But keep reading your tables, like you do. Don't let reality intrude.
Has anyone really tried? 3000m isn't a popular event.
Wrong. The 3000m is held very often on the circuit and the sport's biggest names have tried for this record, ranging from Hicham El Guerrouj (3:26/7:23) to Bernard Lagat (3:26.34/7:29/12:53 (he ran the 3k/5k after his prime), Geb (3:31i/7:25.54), and Bekele (3:32/7:25). Daniel Komen ran 3:29/7:20.67/12:39, and was world record holder at the 3000m and 5000m. For years, no one was even running 7:28. Now the floodgates have opened. Remember that while he's no miler, Cheptegei ran his 12:35 in Monaco in very warm conditions and probably was in sub 12:30 shape at the time. He also beat Bekele's 10000m record by 6 seconds. His countryman, Kiplimo ran 7:26 with very good but not especially fast pacing. Indoors, some random Ethiopian runner ran 7:24. So, I think Cheptegei in top shape will challenge the record and maybe even break it.
rekrunner wrote:
Has anyone really tried? 3000m isn't a popular event.
Bekele/Geb went semi-hard at it in a couple random seasons, but not consistently throughout their careers. Neither of them had ideal 1,500 speed, as they were 5000/10000 guys. Not since El Guerrouj, who took just one shot at it in his prime, has there been a candidate as ripe to go after it as Jakob (unless you count Farah). Another name who would have a theoretical shot is Yomif Kejelcha but he hasn't been at his top level recently.
Someone previous mentioned Jakob with his 3:28, and I think in this case, he is actually too big for 7:20. His 7:27 is already a fantastic time (and so was his 2k run last year), but 7 more seconds is a tough ask.
Between JC or JI, I think JC is more likely due to 12:35 and XC strength. Kiplimo might be the the to do it though.
I have observed that Kiplimo has a similar build and running style to Komen. While this is not usually indicative of similar performance, it is just interesting to see.
zxcvzxcv wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
Has anyone really tried? 3000m isn't a popular event.
Wrong. The 3000m is held very often on the circuit and the sport's biggest names have tried for this record, ranging from Hicham El Guerrouj (3:26/7:23) to Bernard Lagat (3:26.34/7:29/12:53 (he ran the 3k/5k after his prime), Geb (3:31i/7:25.54), and Bekele (3:32/7:25). Daniel Komen ran 3:29/7:20.67/12:39, and was world record holder at the 3000m and 5000m. For years, no one was even running 7:28. Now the floodgates have opened. Remember that while he's no miler, Cheptegei ran his 12:35 in Monaco in very warm conditions and probably was in sub 12:30 shape at the time. He also beat Bekele's 10000m record by 6 seconds. His countryman, Kiplimo ran 7:26 with very good but not especially fast pacing. Indoors, some random Ethiopian runner ran 7:24. So, I think Cheptegei in top shape will challenge the record and maybe even break it.
The 5k is almost double the distance of the 3k. Success at one doesn't guarantee success at the other. The 3k requires top 1500 speed - as Komen had. There are few contenders today, who have both 1500 speed and 5k endurance. Cheptegei isn't one of them.
Peas and Carrots 22 wrote:
'Mr Rosa, can you explain to the court why you decided to switch to managing Ugandan athletes over the last few years? Did you find the talent in Kenya had suddenly dried up? Can you tell us how often your Ugandan athletes are tested?'
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-36797823
Sure thing Coevett.
I am all in favor of dopers being caught. The more the merrier.
I am also in favor of people like you and the other dude to show proof when accusing someone of doping.
Armstronglivs wrote:
5679 wrote:
Oh wow, an insult? I never expected that from you!
The poster you asked the question to said that ACCORDING TO THE EQUIVALENCE TABLES (got it now?) that 7:20 is weak.
Keep the insults coming. They only show your lack of valid arguments and knowledge!
Tables are works of fiction, favoured by geeks sitting at their computers. The reality is that 7.20 is a helluva time that no one has got near for 25 years. And it was doped - like all the other records. Only dope like the 90's will beat it. And Cheptegei isn't fast enough.
Tables are references used by knowledgeable people (not you) all over the world.
Oh Please wrote:
Someone previous mentioned Jakob with his 3:28, and I think in this case, he is actually too big for 7:20. His 7:27 is already a fantastic time (and so was his 2k run last year), but 7 more seconds is a tough ask.
Between JC or JI, I think JC is more likely due to 12:35 and XC strength. Kiplimo might be the the to do it though.
Too big in what way? Assuming you mean weight? I can't really see it he's pretty slim. I do think he has a ways to go endurance-wise, but I don't think size will be the deterrent. More training at altitude I hope.
Armstronglivs wrote:
5679 wrote:
3:37 rabitting the race, into a significant head wind in the back straight, and I bet, while training for much longer distances.
Once again you show your lack of knowledge.
He has never run faster than 3m37 at any time. So where are the 8 secs coming from that Komen ran? A syringe?
Let me know when was the last time Joshua trained specifically for 1500m.
Armstronglivs wrote:
5679 wrote:
I would love to see that.
I'm sure he would love the publicity, too.
I'm sure he is as tested as Nick Willis, Jakob Ingebrigtsen or Stewart McSweyn and is not afraid of publicity.
rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
So how many "soft" records last for a quarter of a century? Furthermore, no 5k world record-holder has gotten near it, nor have the best 1500 runners, including the holder of the record over that distance. But keep reading your tables, like you do. Don't let reality intrude.
Has anyone really tried? 3000m isn't a popular event.
3k is definitely a popular event. Even if it's not popular, usually the best runners will try and get their names high up on the all-time list for as many events as they can.
5679 wrote:
I'm sure he is as tested as Nick Willis, Jakob Ingebrigtsen or Stewart McSweyn and is not afraid of publicity.
Cheptegei is probably tested as much or more than those guys. What basis do you have to say he is not? He races for records on the roads and track (these require in-competition doping controls). He trains in a well-known training camp in Uganda with a high-profile group that is not hard to find. Nick Willis is probably not running fast enough to justify drug testing at this point. I don't think running 3:57 miles justifies out-of-competition testing.
Cheptegei and his management court publicity all the time. They just did a World Athletics feature with him. He publicizes his record attempts well in advance. He takes on high-profile races throughout each year.