What happened to the minimal, no-nonsense racing flat?

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

There is a reason everyone is run in the spring shoes now. It is much faster. 2-3 minutes if you're elite or sub-elite is huge. I ran in Saucony Type A's throughout my career. But the evidence for the shoes like the vaporfly's is undeniable. I will definately run in a shoe from that family in the future and in all honesty, it will be Nike because I think their technology is better.

The days of the minimalist flat has been pushed aside by technology,

Different strokes as they say. Not everyone will benefit from these shoes. People ARE getting hurt in them (as evidenced by PT’s and podiatrists seeing people getting injured in them and Molly Huddle racing in her A9/Fastwitch -one each on different feet no less- road racing flats in the Olympic Trials because the Endorphins gave her Peroneal Tendonitis), and some people are actually slower in them (as evidenced by a recent research paper that showed as such).

There never has been, and never will be, a shoe or type of shoe, that works for everyone.

Its good to know I'm not alone in needing these types of shoes. I too have run, and raced once, in different shoes on each foot, but my case was less extreme - a streak lt 4 on the left foot and a streak lt 2 on the right foot.

Still, I suspect we'll enter an epoch with few minimal racing flats around. The narrative being pushed is that everyone benefits from the high stack height carbon fiber high drop shoes. Maybe a random oddball doesn't, but the number is so few that there is no need to sell anything else, in this narrative. Its good to see some pros not running in the high stack height shoes.

I wonder if any Africans are still racing in streak 7s and adizero adios, or for them is it wear what we tell you or we won't pay you?

Yeah I noticed too when looking for new shoes it's like the minimal options are drying up. Nobody wants to buy minimal shoes they all fall for marketing. I train exclusively in XC flats 180 miles a week on roads, I can't stand typical running shoes. Don't limit to racing flats look at XC shoes too, the spike wells are no problem for me. I'm using New Balance XC 7 and the old xc900/xc700 models. Also Nike XC Rival is a good one. The new Nike XC 5 looks good but expensive. Takumi Sen 3 I like. Also Vapour Glove 4 I ran a 50K on the roads in and they were brilliant.

I believe the next% are only faster because they are lighter. Usually those type of shoes are on the heavier side. Most can't benefit from lighter minimal shoes because they just don't have the required proper running form to run in them without faituge. I run 5-10 seconds faster in a 5K just by removing the 20g insoles.

zoom streak 8? lt 5? wrote:

Anyone know if the zoom streak - or the zoom streak lt - is discontinued?

The zoom streak 7 is sold out just about everywhere. Nike has some zoom streak lt stock, but the lt4 was a while ago now.

There haven't been any new colorways in quite a while. Running warehouse put them on sale. Usually this happens right before new colorways come out, but they've been on sale for long enough without new colorways that I'm starting to think this too. That's what the discontinuation of the streak lt 2 and 3 looked like, albeit with the next model on the market already.

I'm sure the companies love this new epoch because they have convinced hobby joggers that they need $200+ super shoes for their local road race. Way more money to be made than a sub-$100 racing flat or leightweight trainer. Meanwhile, I still have yet to be beaten in the stretch by the super shoes.

I hope to see a more affordable middle ground. With these new lighter foams, you can still get some decent cushion that doesn't slap the pavement but also avoids a monster stack height. Then maybe go with a traditional midfoot nylon plate but not full-length carbon fiber. Cutting down the stack height and plate will keep weight and price down.

Liberals are officially ruining this country

This is what "real men and women" wore back in the day. But you can still get them... you want minimal? I can give you minimal!

https://www.onitsukatiger.com/us/en-us/mexico-66/c/ao20100000/

It seems like you wouldn't want to train in the high stack super shoes every day...that there should still be a market for a lower and light weight training shoe to train in and save the expensive, high stack, carbon fiber shoes for race day. Didn't Galen Rupp hurt his achilles because of how stiff the Vaporflies are?

NB 1400 or NB 1500. I keep them for track workouts.

I don't like Nike but I'll add a vote for the Zoom Streak LT3/LT4. They can still be found on ebay, though be aware they run 1/2 size small

run with the wom wrote:

This is what "real men and women" wore back in the day. But you can still get them... you want minimal? I can give you minimal!

https://www.onitsukatiger.com/us/en-us/mexico-66/c/ao20100000/

Lol, i think that I'll get these and try to win a race in them just to make a point.

sub sub elite local hobby jogger wrote:

run with the wom wrote:

This is what "real men and women" wore back in the day. But you can still get them... you want minimal? I can give you minimal!

https://www.onitsukatiger.com/us/en-us/mexico-66/c/ao20100000/

Lol, i think that I'll get these and try to win a race in them just to make a point.

I've won races barefoot and in flip flops and had people come up to me and tell me how much they spent on their shoes lol One guy I outkicked in the last 400 barefoot and I just heard him mutter "f that" and after the race he told me not to do that or i will ruin my feet lol

So I've been thinking about this thread a lot - I also miss the old school, "no nonsense" racing flat style - Mizuno Wave Hitogami, ASICS Gel-Tarther and SpeedStar (is that what it was called?) and myriad Adidas options.

I'm happy to report that - after only an initial run, so don't get out your wallets yet - the Adidas Adizero Pro does a good job melding traditional racing flats of old (some Nike Marathoner and Adidas Adios 4/5 DNA in there) with a carbon fiber plate. The ASICS MetaRacer looks the most old school, but I think this Adidas may be the most classic feeling flat yet. Stay tuned.

Can you feel the 10mm drop in the Adidas? That + the aggressive rocker that a lot of these shoes have is what turns me off to them. Although it looks like the Adidas doesn't have a rocker, so that's nice.

Alberto's Dog wrote:

So I've been thinking about this thread a lot - I also miss the old school, "no nonsense" racing flat style - Mizuno Wave Hitogami, ASICS Gel-Tarther and SpeedStar (is that what it was called?) and myriad Adidas options.

I'm happy to report that - after only an initial run, so don't get out your wallets yet - the Adidas Adizero Pro does a good job melding traditional racing flats of old (some Nike Marathoner and Adidas Adios 4/5 DNA in there) with a carbon fiber plate. The ASICS MetaRacer looks the most old school, but I think this Adidas may be the most classic feeling flat yet. Stay tuned.

I’ll throw a vote in for the Altra Escalante Racer. 7 ish ounces, TPU Ego midsole, nice firm and fast ride without being punishing. I’d definitely run a half in them, possibly a Marathon but I’d reserve final judgement on that until I get an 18-20 miler under my belt in them. Plenty fast and firm for a 5k/10k.

Ho Hum wrote:

Can you feel the 10mm drop in the Adidas? That + the aggressive rocker that a lot of these shoes have is what turns me off to them. Although it looks like the Adidas doesn't have a rocker, so that's nice.

Actually, I was surprised to learn it was 10mm - pleasantly surprised, given that I've been having some nagging (to the tune of 12 months) Achilles pain, but also just generally surprised in that it felt more like, if I could guess, 5 or 6mm.

It's an aggressive feeling shoe, but not in the same way that, say the Carbon X (the most aggressive "rocker" I can think of) is. It's a pretty even footstrike, and then firmness at the toe off which propels you. Easier to run slower in that most carbon plated shoes, because you sort of just don't activate that last step, and plenty fast across strides.

Of course, I'll caveat - that was my first run in them! - but I really was not expecting to like them as much as I did.

Just received my metaracers. Haven't run in them, but initial impressions...

They feel more like regular racing flats than the other carbon shoes.

The plate is significantly less dramatic than other carbon shoes.

They remind me of something like the Air Mariah (the PU midsole added some stiffness) or something like that -

well cushioned with a little stiffness under the forefoot.

Initial feel is awesome.

Not saying these will replace those looking for no-nonsense racing flats, but they are definitely not in the same category as Endorphins, Next/Alpha, CarbonX.

**stipe wrote:

Just received my metaracers. Haven't run in them, but initial impressions...

They feel more like regular racing flats than the other carbon shoes.

The plate is significantly less dramatic than other carbon shoes.

They remind me of something like the Air Mariah (the PU midsole added some stiffness) or something like that -

well cushioned with a little stiffness under the forefoot.

Initial feel is awesome.

Not saying these will replace those looking for no-nonsense racing flats, but they are definitely not in the same category as Endorphins, Next/Alpha, CarbonX.

metaracer looks like a typical racing flat, compared to the minimalist flats discussed in this thread, and the high stack height carbon shoes