This thread was originally titled, "Incredible development in the $612,000 Transcon Goodge run, currently ongoing" but the new title is more descriptive. The description of the run is here.
Except a full freaking body suit and baclava and sunglasses.
It was 30 )#*%)@*#)@*%)@&% degrees with a headwind...I wear a bacalava and cover up every inch of my body in that type of cold and wind. And if you can't tell that is him?? Come on now...
Baclava is a Greek sweet, I believe you gents mean "Balaclava"
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
and it’s since gone back to him getting up in the afternoon and running faster times with a significantly lower heart rate. Why wasn’t this happening when he was being monitored - why hasn’t it EVER (across 3 events) happened when he was monitored?
It makes sense if he's twinning and someone else is running in the afternoon with the full bodysuit. Would also make sense why he they don't want anyone approaching too closely. Would also make sense why the monitors need to be coordinated by invitation so they know when to insert the real Goodge.
I don't buy the 30 degrees so it was cold and so they needed a bodysuit argument. I've ran in 30 degrees and less in Oklahoma. It feels fantastic.
He is wearing a watch and posting ALL of the data daily...He route and where he is going next is posted live. He does welcome people to come out -- I'll be running with him in the next couple of weeks. I was polite and asked...they sure absolutely! I didn't hurl insults and then say I'm coming to watch your fraud. But, I don't believe there is any fraud going on here. Is there someone out there who is willing/wanting to observe them everyday for the rest of the run? I highly doubt it. My goodness, they are releasing more than enough video and have hundreds and hundreds of hours of footage. Why would they be so transparent with all the video if it was a fake? That is the definition of crazy...and I don't believe they're crazy!
I agree that it appears crazy. Absurd even. And yet the data has a bizarre pattern to it that needs explaining.
To quote my post from #175 (page 9). This is one of probably 10-20 that explains the issue (including Lamey’s post on the previous page (post #547)):
”It's the pattern of the data that seems weird. Why are the irregularities only occurring during the three sponsored runs, across 4 years with various bits of kit, in exactly the same fashion, and never during events with a large number of witnesses? He's frequently getting up for his afternoon runs and putting down the same (or better) speeds with a 25%+ reduction in heart rate. AND this has diminished, or stopped, when Will has put pressure on his camp. I don't think this is a firm indicator of guilt, but something his camp are doing on a regular basis is leading to a consistent irregularity, and it needs to be explained.”
To emphasise this point, as pointed out by Lamey, Will’s data was clean when Will C was monitoring him, and it’s since gone back to him getting up in the afternoon and running faster times with a significantly lower heart rate. Why wasn’t this happening when he was being monitored - why hasn’t it EVER (across 3 events) happened when he was monitored?
When stated this clearly the answer just pops out really : NuCalm
I don’t have any judgement on the legitimacy of this run but it’s pretty funny that people on letsrun of all places which traffics in insulting and uncivil posting are suddenly clutching their pearls around people using “bad language” or yelling.
Give me a break. We’re bantering anonymously amongst other imbeciles. How we behave is completely irrelevant. We aren’t posting videos and creating content for a website and representing a company.
With respect to those defending Goodge, including 'Sneakers On The Ground', your input is valuable but it's a nonsense, he's supported by bogus pyramid-selling brands, he's a gym bunny not a runner, his data is irregular, his HR data is shocking when not observed. I thought he could be a good guy caught up in a big branding/charity/male model push until he started throwing rocks at Will C's car, he's clearly now a fraud and to continue to defend him is unseemly. While it's not the be-all and the end-all the HR data is, in itself, pretty damning against Goodge.
Word is that Will C and Laz are now in contact. Multi-thong approach being drawn up, using air and land. GPS beacon on back rim of RV, drone at 200/15. Will C is looking for these additional data points to triangulate against heart rate inconsistencies. Laz is rounding up smokes/brain teaser mags and heading out in the AM. Looks to be heating up.
With respect to those defending Goodge, including 'Sneakers On The Ground', your input is valuable but it's a nonsense, he's supported by bogus pyramid-selling brands, he's a gym bunny not a runner, his data is irregular, his HR data is shocking when not observed. I thought he could be a good guy caught up in a big branding/charity/male model push until he started throwing rocks at Will C's car, he's clearly now a fraud and to continue to defend him is unseemly. While it's not the be-all and the end-all the HR data is, in itself, pretty damning against Goodge.
So how did all you guys ganging up on Ashley Paulson and accusing her of cheating in ultras go? If my old timer memory serves me correct, you all got chicked and ended up running away with tails between your legs just like what you are doing with Goodge.
With respect to those defending Goodge, including 'Sneakers On The Ground', your input is valuable but it's a nonsense, he's supported by bogus pyramid-selling brands, he's a gym bunny not a runner, his data is irregular, his HR data is shocking when not observed. I thought he could be a good guy caught up in a big branding/charity/male model push until he started throwing rocks at Will C's car, he's clearly now a fraud and to continue to defend him is unseemly. While it's not the be-all and the end-all the HR data is, in itself, pretty damning against Goodge.
So how did all you guys ganging up on Ashley Paulson and accusing her of cheating in ultras go? If my old timer memory serves me correct, you all got chicked and ended up running away with tails between your legs just like what you are doing with Goodge.
Super weird that you bring up Paulson who was also suspected of twinning, with her crew looking nearly identical and wearing the same kit and watch, and at times was covered up in a track suit with a hood. Maybe the result of that race was your inspiration?
He is wearing a watch and posting ALL of the data daily...He route and where he is going next is posted live. He does welcome people to come out -- I'll be running with him in the next couple of weeks. I was polite and asked...they sure absolutely! I didn't hurl insults and then say I'm coming to watch your fraud. But, I don't believe there is any fraud going on here. Is there someone out there who is willing/wanting to observe them everyday for the rest of the run? I highly doubt it. My goodness, they are releasing more than enough video and have hundreds and hundreds of hours of footage. Why would they be so transparent with all the video if it was a fake? That is the definition of crazy...and I don't believe they're crazy!
I agree that it appears crazy. Absurd even. And yet the data has a bizarre pattern to it that needs explaining.
To quote my post from #175 (page 9). This is one of probably 10-20 that explains the issue (including Lamey’s post on the previous page (post #547)):
”It's the pattern of the data that seems weird. Why are the irregularities only occurring during the three sponsored runs, across 4 years with various bits of kit, in exactly the same fashion, and never during events with a large number of witnesses? He's frequently getting up for his afternoon runs and putting down the same (or better) speeds with a 25%+ reduction in heart rate. AND this has diminished, or stopped, when Will has put pressure on his camp. I don't think this is a firm indicator of guilt, but something his camp are doing on a regular basis is leading to a consistent irregularity, and it needs to be explained.”
To emphasise this point, as pointed out by Lamey, Will’s data was clean when Will C was monitoring him, and it’s since gone back to him getting up in the afternoon and running faster times with a significantly lower heart rate. Why wasn’t this happening when he was being monitored - why hasn’t it EVER (across 3 events) happened when he was monitored?
Super weird that you bring up Paulson who was also suspected of twinning, with her crew looking nearly identical and wearing the same kit and watch, and at times was covered up in a track suit with a hood. Maybe the result of that race was your inspiration?
Have you lost your marbles and think everyone that is better looking and faster than you is "twinning"? You still can't admit you were totally wrong about Ashley Paulson, can you? You are doing the exact same thing to Goodge just because he is extremely handsome.
Super weird that you bring up Paulson who was also suspected of twinning, with her crew looking nearly identical and wearing the same kit and watch, and at times was covered up in a track suit with a hood. Maybe the result of that race was your inspiration?
Have you lost your marbles and think everyone that is better looking and faster than you is "twinning"? You still can't admit you were totally wrong about Ashley Paulson, can you? You are doing the exact same thing to Goodge just because he is extremely handsome.
I have to congratulate you, Pal. In the category of 'LR posters who are most desperately begging to be punched in the face,' I think you have risen all the way to the top of the list. Impressive accomplishment. Your mom must be proud. (Why don't you yell up the basement stairs and ask her?)
I have to congratulate you, Pal. In the category of 'LR posters who are most desperately begging to be punched in the face,' I think you have risen all the way to the top of the list. Impressive accomplishment. Your mom must be proud. (Why don't you yell up the basement stairs and ask her?)
Looks like you all are extremely sensitive about being totally wrong about Ashley Paulson but have never admitted it and never formally apologized. Will you apologize for falsely accusing Goodge?
With respect to those defending Goodge, including 'Sneakers On The Ground', your input is valuable but it's a nonsense, he's supported by bogus pyramid-selling brands, he's a gym bunny not a runner, his data is irregular, his HR data is shocking when not observed. I thought he could be a good guy caught up in a big branding/charity/male model push until he started throwing rocks at Will C's car, he's clearly now a fraud and to continue to defend him is unseemly. While it's not the be-all and the end-all the HR data is, in itself, pretty damning against Goodge.
So how did all you guys ganging up on Ashley Paulson and accusing her of cheating in ultras go? If my old timer memory serves me correct, you all got chicked and ended up running away with tails between your legs just like what you are doing with Goodge.
I think whataboutism is cringeworthy. I never accused Ashley of anything, but if my memory serves me right, she did not claim to be a world record holder, raise any money or promote any scams, so I don't think it's relevant.
Somewhere wvlc listed the pace and HRs he considered suspect but I can't find them now. Is someone able to list them here so I can check them myself?
For example, 6 min k at 115, or 7 min k at 105, are these in the "dirty" category?
Yes.
Will C deleted all of his posts on the Facebook page, they were listed there and a few were copied in this thread (first 8 pages or so). I’m not sure if they’re still there.
Iirc, Will C’s issues with Goodge’s run we’re:
1) the data (see my post at the bottom of previous page for specifics)
2) his notable lack of pedigree as a runner in comparison to other people he’s scorching in this run, shown by his times and heart rates run in marathons, and on training runs on strava
A further interesting question would be the role of the degree of muscle mass he’s carrying vs far less muscled runners, and how much of a role that plays at the plodding speeds required. Is the extra muscle a help or hindrance?
Whilst there’s a clear motive for cheating (outlined on this page, and elsewhere in this thread), it still seems so out of pocket (given the numbers of people involved, audacity of it, his mother’s death etc) that I can’t help but think something else is going on.
I'm totally on board with (2), he's demonstrably not a great marathon runner, and doesn't have anything else in his background to suggest he's a great multi-day runner.
But I'm struggling with (1). First, this data is all based on heart rates off a wrist watch, an unreliable source. I'll post some links later to put that statement on a more scientific footing. But we're told its the pattern that's suspect, clean when observed, dirty when not. But that's not true. It was given a clean bill of health on day 17, unobserved. And the figures I quoted were from day 26, flat Ks in the afternoon, which I believe was observed. So it's an unreliable pattern from unreliable data.
This doesn't mean he isn't cheating, but this data argument just doesn't stand up to any scrutiny for me.
This thread is boring. The Rob Young, Kip Litton, Mike Rossi, and that other Brit (forgot his name) with "he's wife" posts were far more entertaining than this snorefest.
We've updated our BetterRunningShoes.com web site to make it easier to find good deals on the best shoes. To keep it great we need new shoe reviews from you.