Well maybe you want to tell us how you calculate portfolio returns? Do you get annual numbers from Morningstar or use quicken or what?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Give us example of a year's holdings and transactions also (you can make the numbers proportionally bigger or smaller, as you wish, so we don't know the true value of your holdings that year), if you really want to defend your claim. You must know by now that nobody here believes you on this.
Um...NOPE! Did that a couple years ago with info that seemed too good to be true for some of you, and Sally especially called me stupid and said I didn't know how to look things up, etc., when in fact it was HE who was not doing it right, something he eventually admitted to, but not without a lot of name calling on his part, so nah, not doing that with you people again.
Besides, I have no need to "defend" my claim. You can believe it or not. I could not care less. I haven't made a mistake. My returns are not due to any brilliance on my part, and I do not lie. I am losing big time this year to the Dow, so be happy about that.
I am sorry that you haven't done as well as I have in the market over the years.
Well maybe you want to tell us how you calculate portfolio returns? Do you get annual numbers from Morningstar or use quicken or what?
Ha! No freakin' way am I going to spell out anything to you yahoos. The last time I got into minutia with you people, I was ridiculed, called stupid, etc. by Sally and others until they discovered that I was right and they were not. Sally didn't even know how to properly look up a Fund return. I'm not about to have a pointless discussion with a bunch of idiots on this topic again.
You can just have a bee in your bonnet about it.
Maybe the rest of my investing life will even it all out.
This year so far, here are the approximate answers:
Dow YTD: -8.62%
Flagpole YTD: -18.16%
I am almost for sure going to lose to the Dow this year.
As I posted earlier, your portfolio is is closer to the S&P 500 in return. Dow is a poor benchmark.
Ha! No freakin' way am I going to spell out anything to you yahoos. The last time I got into minutia with you people, I was ridiculed, called stupid, etc. by Sally and others until they discovered that I was right and they were not. Sally didn't even know how to properly look up a Fund return. I'm not about to have a pointless discussion with a bunch of idiots on this topic again.
You can just have a bee in your bonnet about it.
Maybe the rest of my investing life will even it all out.
This year so far, here are the approximate answers:
Dow YTD: -8.62%
Flagpole YTD: -18.16%
I am almost for sure going to lose to the Dow this year.
As I posted earlier, your portfolio is is closer to the S&P 500 in return. Dow is a poor benchmark.
One of the first (and maybe the only) true and relevant thing anyone has said on this topic.
I never said the Dow was a good benchmark. It's just the one I have used...just randomly picked all those years ago when I first started investing. It really makes no difference at all. Only your lifetime overall gains (well, and the overall amount you put in too on which those gains were built) matter.
I am entertained a tad though that so many of you get your panties in a bunch over my returns. Sally went out of his way to incorrectly look up fund returns back in 2020 to try to prove me wrong about what I said about a couple of my funds that year. He was wrong, of course, but it took me way too much time to try to teach him the proper way to look up fund returns. Good for him though for eventually admitting he was wrong and I was right. He should really have just gone with the fact that I know what I'm talking about and I never lie, and it would have saved him time and embarrassment.
Anyway, you got this one right this time Igy, so props to you on that.
As I posted earlier, your portfolio is is closer to the S&P 500 in return. Dow is a poor benchmark.
One of the first (and maybe the only) true and relevant thing anyone has said on this topic.
I never said the Dow was a good benchmark. It's just the one I have used...just randomly picked all those years ago when I first started investing. It really makes no difference at all. Only your lifetime overall gains (well, and the overall amount you put in too on which those gains were built) matter.
I am entertained a tad though that so many of you get your panties in a bunch over my returns. Sally went out of his way to incorrectly look up fund returns back in 2020 to try to prove me wrong about what I said about a couple of my funds that year. He was wrong, of course, but it took me way too much time to try to teach him the proper way to look up fund returns. Good for him though for eventually admitting he was wrong and I was right. He should really have just gone with the fact that I know what I'm talking about and I never lie, and it would have saved him time and embarrassment.
Anyway, you got this one right this time Igy, so props to you on that.
it doesn't matter whether the benchmark is the Dow or SP500 or whatever. Beating any benchmark like that every year is next to impossible.
So, no...not a particularly relevant thing to say. The only relevant thing to say is 'Flagpole is almost certainly wrong.'
One of the first (and maybe the only) true and relevant thing anyone has said on this topic.
I never said the Dow was a good benchmark. It's just the one I have used...just randomly picked all those years ago when I first started investing. It really makes no difference at all. Only your lifetime overall gains (well, and the overall amount you put in too on which those gains were built) matter.
I am entertained a tad though that so many of you get your panties in a bunch over my returns. Sally went out of his way to incorrectly look up fund returns back in 2020 to try to prove me wrong about what I said about a couple of my funds that year. He was wrong, of course, but it took me way too much time to try to teach him the proper way to look up fund returns. Good for him though for eventually admitting he was wrong and I was right. He should really have just gone with the fact that I know what I'm talking about and I never lie, and it would have saved him time and embarrassment.
Anyway, you got this one right this time Igy, so props to you on that.
it doesn't matter whether the benchmark is the Dow or SP500 or whatever. Beating any benchmark like that every year is next to impossible.
So, no...not a particularly relevant thing to say. The only relevant thing to say is 'Flagpole is almost certainly wrong.'
When he first told that whopper I was inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt that he had mistakenly counted his yearly contributions as part of his returns but at this point it's clear he's just lying.
I don't think flagpole is lying...he is making some kind of a fundamental error in judging performance, and likely we will never know what that error is. I think he believes he is telling the truth. Could be adding in contributions....my best guess is some weird math he does with dividends or cap gains. Maybe he counts capital gains as return, without understanding NAV of his fund goes down when he gets the cap gains.
A test will be how his 2022 % return falls out after December 2022 cap gains payouts. Those payouts will be massive and if Flagpole gives himself some kind of performance boost from them we'll know that is the culprit.
The guy just lies a lot, if you pay attention to his stories he's got plenty of tells. Just the fact that he's constantly proclaiming how he's never told a lie is a big red flag, people who are actually honest don't do that. It's something that serial liars do. He also tries to make his lies more believable by not portraying himself as too perfect, ie, he only beat the DOW 32 out of 33 years (hey I'm not that good!), he's never told a lie as an adult (hey nobody's perfect!) When he gets called out he tries to deflect, accusing everyone of just being jealous. Look what just happened when you asked him to explain how he calculated his returns, he made some long rambling post where called you a yahoo and refused to answer the question. If you've ever dealt with a serial liar (I've had the displeasure of working a few) these behaviors are all pretty common. Where you may be partially correct is that Flagpole probably doesn't recognize what he's doing as lying, for people like this it's usually rooted in some deep seated psychological issue, maybe when he was a kid he learned to gain approval by embellishing stories about his accomplishments. Only his therapist would know for sure and it's pretty clear he doesn't have one.
I don't think flagpole is lying...he is making some kind of a fundamental error in judging performance, and likely we will never know what that error is. I think he believes he is telling the truth. Could be adding in contributions....my best guess is some weird math he does with dividends or cap gains. Maybe he counts capital gains as return, without understanding NAV of his fund goes down when he gets the cap gains.
A test will be how his 2022 % return falls out after December 2022 cap gains payouts. Those payouts will be massive and if Flagpole gives himself some kind of performance boost from them we'll know that is the culprit.
The guy just lies a lot, if you pay attention to his stories he's got plenty of tells. Just the fact that he's constantly proclaiming how he's never told a lie is a big red flag, people who are actually honest don't do that. It's something that serial liars do. He also tries to make his lies more believable by not portraying himself as too perfect, ie, he only beat the DOW 32 out of 33 years (hey I'm not that good!), he's never told a lie as an adult (hey nobody's perfect!) When he gets called out he tries to deflect, accusing everyone of just being jealous. Look what just happened when you asked him to explain how he calculated his returns, he made some long rambling post where called you a yahoo and refused to answer the question. If you've ever dealt with a serial liar (I've had the displeasure of working a few) these behaviors are all pretty common. Where you may be partially correct is that Flagpole probably doesn't recognize what he's doing as lying, for people like this it's usually rooted in some deep seated psychological issue, maybe when he was a kid he learned to gain approval by embellishing stories about his accomplishments. Only his therapist would know for sure and it's pretty clear he doesn't have one.
eh I dunno admittedly I'm not good at judging character usually, but Flagpole seems to me one of the good guys - one who makes mistakes but doesn't make up stuff. There's no use arguing this, but that's my sense of it. Maybe it's partly because he and I have a lot in common so I give him the benefit of the doubt.
Ok whatever. On to June. Sp500 gained the tiniest of a smidge in May. Hoorah. I needed that.
I don't think flagpole is lying...he is making some kind of a fundamental error in judging performance, and likely we will never know what that error is. I think he believes he is telling the truth. Could be adding in contributions....my best guess is some weird math he does with dividends or cap gains. Maybe he counts capital gains as return, without understanding NAV of his fund goes down when he gets the cap gains.
A test will be how his 2022 % return falls out after December 2022 cap gains payouts. Those payouts will be massive and if Flagpole gives himself some kind of performance boost from them we'll know that is the culprit.
The guy just lies a lot, if you pay attention to his stories he's got plenty of tells. Just the fact that he's constantly proclaiming how he's never told a lie is a big red flag, people who are actually honest don't do that. It's something that serial liars do. He also tries to make his lies more believable by not portraying himself as too perfect, ie, he only beat the DOW 32 out of 33 years (hey I'm not that good!), he's never told a lie as an adult (hey nobody's perfect!) When he gets called out he tries to deflect, accusing everyone of just being jealous. Look what just happened when you asked him to explain how he calculated his returns, he made some long rambling post where called you a yahoo and refused to answer the question. If you've ever dealt with a serial liar (I've had the displeasure of working a few) these behaviors are all pretty common. Where you may be partially correct is that Flagpole probably doesn't recognize what he's doing as lying, for people like this it's usually rooted in some deep seated psychological issue, maybe when he was a kid he learned to gain approval by embellishing stories about his accomplishments. Only his therapist would know for sure and it's pretty clear he doesn't have one.
I am pretty sure he has had MANY therapists throughout his lifetime but I am pretty sure most have quit out of exasperation or by committing suicide (am kidding). Also, what you say about honest people not needing to say all the time that they never lie is so true. Only people who make up stuff all the time are compelled to insist that they never lie. It is like they know they are not honest and need to say that all the time so they will feel better about not being honest.
Well maybe you want to tell us how you calculate portfolio returns? Do you get annual numbers from Morningstar or use quicken or what?
One thing you guys don't really think about is how well the market has performed over the last 33 years. On average the well-diversified investor is doubling his or her porfolio about every 6.5 years. Also, Flagpole always talks about how he has stystematically invested and without fail each and every year. If Flagpole was just matching the market over the last 33 years he would be worth millions. BUT, having beaten the market 32 out of 33 years puts his returns in the stratosphere. If he had really done that well he would be worth north of $100 million.
I don't think flagpole is lying...he is making some kind of a fundamental error in judging performance, and likely we will never know what that error is. I think he believes he is telling the truth. Could be adding in contributions....my best guess is some weird math he does with dividends or cap gains. Maybe he counts capital gains as return, without understanding NAV of his fund goes down when he gets the cap gains.
A test will be how his 2022 % return falls out after December 2022 cap gains payouts. Those payouts will be massive and if Flagpole gives himself some kind of performance boost from them we'll know that is the culprit.
The guy just lies a lot, if you pay attention to his stories he's got plenty of tells. Just the fact that he's constantly proclaiming how he's never told a lie is a big red flag, people who are actually honest don't do that. It's something that serial liars do. He also tries to make his lies more believable by not portraying himself as too perfect, ie, he only beat the DOW 32 out of 33 years (hey I'm not that good!), he's never told a lie as an adult (hey nobody's perfect!) When he gets called out he tries to deflect, accusing everyone of just being jealous. Look what just happened when you asked him to explain how he calculated his returns, he made some long rambling post where called you a yahoo and refused to answer the question. If you've ever dealt with a serial liar (I've had the displeasure of working a few) these behaviors are all pretty common. Where you may be partially correct is that Flagpole probably doesn't recognize what he's doing as lying, for people like this it's usually rooted in some deep seated psychological issue, maybe when he was a kid he learned to gain approval by embellishing stories about his accomplishments. Only his therapist would know for sure and it's pretty clear he doesn't have one.
Been on these boards a LONG time. Have pretty much the exact same thoughts. Flagpole Willy at times does offer solid advice, but there also appears to be an almost manic form of narcissism/insecurity inside of him also. Not someone you really want to pay too much attention to... Sorry, FP. Just my opinion.
As I posted earlier, your portfolio is is closer to the S&P 500 in return. Dow is a poor benchmark.
One of the first (and maybe the only) true and relevant thing anyone has said on this topic.
I never said the Dow was a good benchmark. It's just the one I have used...just randomly picked all those years ago when I first started investing. It really makes no difference at all. Only your lifetime overall gains (well, and the overall amount you put in too on which those gains were built) matter.
I am entertained a tad though that so many of you get your panties in a bunch over my returns. Sally went out of his way to incorrectly look up fund returns back in 2020 to try to prove me wrong about what I said about a couple of my funds that year. He was wrong, of course, but it took me way too much time to try to teach him the proper way to look up fund returns. Good for him though for eventually admitting he was wrong and I was right. He should really have just gone with the fact that I know what I'm talking about and I never lie, and it would have saved him time and embarrassment.
Anyway, you got this one right this time Igy, so props to you on that.
Flagpole, as I said in an earlier post I agree with you on many things. Even on your approach to investing. My arguments on market valuation are more academic than a practical approach. On this latest controversy I have no real comment other than to give you a dig or two.
One of the first (and maybe the only) true and relevant thing anyone has said on this topic.
I never said the Dow was a good benchmark. It's just the one I have used...just randomly picked all those years ago when I first started investing. It really makes no difference at all. Only your lifetime overall gains (well, and the overall amount you put in too on which those gains were built) matter.
I am entertained a tad though that so many of you get your panties in a bunch over my returns. Sally went out of his way to incorrectly look up fund returns back in 2020 to try to prove me wrong about what I said about a couple of my funds that year. He was wrong, of course, but it took me way too much time to try to teach him the proper way to look up fund returns. Good for him though for eventually admitting he was wrong and I was right. He should really have just gone with the fact that I know what I'm talking about and I never lie, and it would have saved him time and embarrassment.
Anyway, you got this one right this time Igy, so props to you on that.
it doesn't matter whether the benchmark is the Dow or SP500 or whatever. Beating any benchmark like that every year is next to impossible.
So, no...not a particularly relevant thing to say. The only relevant thing to say is 'Flagpole is almost certainly wrong.'
It was a comment on the benchmark itself. If Flagpole was positioned in a similar manner in 2000 like he is today, I would assume it would be impossible to outperform the Dow. Certainly seems slanted to large company growth, rather than to value; hence the underperformance in 2022. That underperformance would have been similar in the 2000-2002 time period. That is the only thought I had.
The guy just lies a lot, if you pay attention to his stories he's got plenty of tells. Just the fact that he's constantly proclaiming how he's never told a lie is a big red flag, people who are actually honest don't do that. It's something that serial liars do. He also tries to make his lies more believable by not portraying himself as too perfect, ie, he only beat the DOW 32 out of 33 years (hey I'm not that good!), he's never told a lie as an adult (hey nobody's perfect!) When he gets called out he tries to deflect, accusing everyone of just being jealous. Look what just happened when you asked him to explain how he calculated his returns, he made some long rambling post where called you a yahoo and refused to answer the question. If you've ever dealt with a serial liar (I've had the displeasure of working a few) these behaviors are all pretty common. Where you may be partially correct is that Flagpole probably doesn't recognize what he's doing as lying, for people like this it's usually rooted in some deep seated psychological issue, maybe when he was a kid he learned to gain approval by embellishing stories about his accomplishments. Only his therapist would know for sure and it's pretty clear he doesn't have one.
eh I dunno admittedly I'm not good at judging character usually, but Flagpole seems to me one of the good guys - one who makes mistakes but doesn't make up stuff. There's no use arguing this, but that's my sense of it. Maybe it's partly because he and I have a lot in common so I give him the benefit of the doubt.
Ok whatever. On to June. Sp500 gained the tiniest of a smidge in May. Hoorah. I needed that.
One of the good guys? lmao
The guy has been vigorously trolling these boards since at least 2005.