"Pandemic of the unvaccinated" CONFIRMED

bidenfixedcovid wrote:

You should have stopped after your first sentence.

"Biden fixed Covid" - Harambe

When you watch the cognitively declining Pres tomorrow imagine Harambe stating, then doubling down on, this. Harambe, you have no credibility. Any chance you had to influence anyone in a positive way, and encourage vaccinations is gone. It's gone because you showed yourself a partisan, not to mention a propaganda arm for Big Pharma.

COVID is nothing but a political game to you, this is understood.

You don't even argue that the unvaccinated have been responsible for a huge share of the hospital load and deaths since vaccinations rolled out. You understand they are the ones responsible for taxing medical resources to the bring during surges. You just don't care because you're so politically brainwashed.

I continue to influence many people by exposing charlatans like yourself daily. I make it clear that the antivaxx COVID-denier side can do nothing but distract, deny, and babble about concepts they do not understand. Feel free to keep trolling, it only adds credibility to my arguments that the denier-fearmongers have zero rational ability.

As usual the antivaxxers bring knives to a gunfight. Failing to defend their arguments against the most basic lines of refutation.

Joey could really save some time by just admitting that vaccines work rather than frantically trying to distract and discredit the dozens of positive studies (to no avail). I don't understand the ideological block preventing this concession.

Pandemic of the dunning kruger and political hacks, confirmed.

Harambe wrote:Nobody smart is really going to argue against the fact that being unvaccinated puts you at higher risk of infection, hospitalization, and death. Under a fast-spreading scenario the numbers are going to show the unvaccinated faring worse. (just as they do in every scenario, but widespread, high transmissible COVID can remove some confounders)

I guess the Imperial College are not 'smart' then? (I mean...I won't strenuously disagree). They freely admit that vaccine efficacy is negative against omicron infection for most people.

I think it's crystal clear that vaccines are accelerating covid infections. It has been clear from the very good UK data for weeks now that infection rates among fully vaxxed are consistently HIGHER vs. the unvaxxed in most adult age cohorts. The rapid spread of omicron amongst the fully-vaxxed is almost certainly due to OAS. Simple vaccine escape would only result in zero VE. The vaccines are driving omicron spread. Pandemic of the fully-vaxxed.

You can continue to deny this if you like, but you're only going to look more & more foolish as time goes on! The time gap between 'conspiracy theory' and 'accepted fact' continues to shrink.

The Lily Hammer wrote:

The school with the nearly 100% vaccination rate had over 1000 cases of Covid in the last week, but did not have a single case of a serious illness from Covid, as of 12/14.

In the county where Cornell is located, the 25% of the population that is unvaccinated is responsible for at least 65% of hospitalizations from Covid.

I hope that helps to unboggle your mind a little.

Yes. Young adults have extremely low Covid risk. Much lower than the population as a whole.

Correct.

Man Overboard wrote:

The Lily Hammer wrote:

The school with the nearly 100% vaccination rate had over 1000 cases of Covid in the last week, but did not have a single case of a serious illness from Covid, as of 12/14.

In the county where Cornell is located, the 25% of the population that is unvaccinated is responsible for at least 65% of hospitalizations from Covid.

I hope that helps to unboggle your mind a little.

Yes. Young adults have extremely low Covid risk. Much lower than the population as a whole.

Correct.

I take it you're agreeing with me that it was pointless for joe d. to use Cornell for whatever argument he was trying to make.

Thanks for reminding me.

Weekly reinfection rate Mesa County = 3.7 cases per 10,000 previously infected

Weekly breakthrough infection rate Mesa County = 20.9 cases per 10,000 fully vaccinated

I expect those numbers to both go up (but for hospitalization and death rates in both groups to remain lower than for the few remaining that are unvaxxed and have not been infected).

Tri-county health department - 28% of deaths - fully vaccinated. 40% of cases - fully vaccinated. 69% of individuals over 5 are vaccinated.

What's interesting in the tri-county is that the two primarily Democrat, Biden voting counties that have some form of vaccine mandate [Arapahoe (70.88% 1 shot, 65.43% fully vaxxed) and Adams (71.81% 1 shot, 65.92% fully vaxxed)] have lower vaccination rates than the primarily Republican, Trump voting Douglas County (80.78% 1 shot, 74.03% fully vaxxed), and are almost as low as the mandate forbidding, heavily Republican El Paso County (69.66% 1 shot). Which basically just goes to show that political affiliation has less to do with vaccine uptake than the liberal media would try to convince you otherwise.

Overstating effectiveness of vaccines is just as dangerous. People feel once they are vaccinated that they no longer need to exercise basic precautions. When I go to church on Sundays, I can't tell you how many older individuals I see without masks because they have been told that they are good to go and that the vax has saved them. Flawed accounting is giving the vaccinated an inflated sense of security.

Man Overboard wrote:

I guess the Imperial College are not 'smart' then? (I mean...I won't strenuously disagree). They freely admit that vaccine efficacy is negative against omicron infection for most people.

I think it's crystal clear that vaccines are accelerating covid infections. It has been clear from the very good UK data for weeks now that infection rates among fully vaxxed are consistently HIGHER vs. the unvaxxed in most adult age cohorts. The rapid spread of omicron amongst the fully-vaxxed is almost certainly due to OAS. Simple vaccine escape would only result in zero VE. The vaccines are driving omicron spread. Pandemic of the fully-vaxxed.

You can continue to deny this if you like, but you're only going to look more & more foolish as time goes on! The time gap between 'conspiracy theory' and 'accepted fact' continues to shrink.

Glad to see the immunology dilettantes are back in this thread. If you actually read the report you'll notice these estimates are VE are contingent on estimates of VE against Delta. Change your VE_Delta and you get new Omicron numbers. Clearly a lot of uncertainty but, again, nobody disputes that 2 shots (or prior infection -- see discussion) provides really no protection against mild infection.

Nothing is 'crystal clear' and attempting to pass of a quick modelling study done on very early Omicron data reveals how desperate you are to control the narrative. If the authors had though vaccine efficacy was truly -negative- maybe they would have mentioned it in the discussion

There is no good evidence that vaccines are accelerating COVID infections. People tried to make the same case with Delta using early data and were proven wrong as soon as more rigorous numbers came in. You are jumping the gun, as usual, because you know Omicron is yet more evidence that unvaxxed people cannot 'avoid' COVID and the risk it carries.

Lastly, please never use the term "OAS" again, it's really unbecoming to see one use word they couldn't understand with a whole year of intense education.

Monkeys Skyping wrote:

Cornell case rates increased about 14x over the two most recent weeks and they do far more surveillance testing than NYC so it's not clear what point you're trying to make. What is clear from the Cornell data is how quickly community spread can happen even in a vaccinated population which is why a lot of serious people are worried about the current wave.

The main issue I was responding to was Harambe pointing to numbers from New York BEFORE OMICRON BECAME PREVALENT as evidence that the vaccines were working against Omicron. The point I made is that the biased statistics that Harambe was using to justify his position are extremely flawed by orders of magnitude compared to real world data from a nearby area. Vaccinated deaths and hospitalizations are being lumped in with the unvaccinated, making the vaccines appear far more effective than they are in reality.

joed|rtty wrote:

The main issue I was responding to was Harambe pointing to numbers from New York BEFORE OMICRON BECAME PREVALENT as evidence that the vaccines were working against Omicron. The point I made is that the biased statistics that Harambe was using to justify his position are extremely flawed by orders of magnitude compared to real world data from a nearby area. Vaccinated deaths and hospitalizations are being lumped in with the unvaccinated, making the vaccines appear far more effective than they are in reality.

Notice the subtle and unsupported leap from cases -> deaths hospitalizations. There has been, what, 1 serious case at Cornell? Your own pet example shows how effective the vaccines are against severe disease!

Cornell provides -zero- evidence that Omicron is a severe-case risk to vaccinated people. If anything it provides evidence in the opposite direction.

My first post about NYC concerned hospitalization data. Stop trying to distract and babble about cases.

And of course the data shows the vaccine are working extremely well against severe disease still. You might have mentioned that.

Feel free to check out their "breakthrough cases" tab for rates that, as usual, show outstanding efficacies.

Without controlling for age, you can't really say much about political affiliation deciding vaccine uptake, but there's no doubt Trump voting counties are dying of COVID much more than Biden counties at this time.

Nobody is overstating vaccine efficacy. 90-98% protection against hospitalization and death is the number, maybe a little lower in very old cohorts. A 10-fold reduction of severe disease rates brings COVID near to the level of the flu. Would you argue that old people should mask up during peak flu season? I do think there is a case to be made there, but I understand if people are willing to take that risk.

Harambe - "Omicron is spreading fast in NYC and, of course, the unvaccinated are seeing a spike in hospitalizations. Vaccinated... not so much. Big surprise."

Then he points to data from New York that ended on 12/4 (for reference, the 1st Omicron case in New York was confirmed on 12/2). Now, most people familiar with COVID understand that it typically takes about two weeks before someone who has contracted COVID will show up in a hospital:

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/progression-of-covid-19-symptoms

Likewise, others like Lily Hammer are pointing to how Cornell, who sent their students home, are not seeing any severe cases of COVID (college kids have very few severe cases of COVID regardless) on December 14th, three days after Omicron cases began to spike in surveillance testing on 12/11. You are pointing to data that, scientifically speaking, would not provide evidence of your statement.

For the period of data Harambe was pointing to, GISAID surveillance indicated that Omicron made up 1.1% of samples, so Omicron would not have made a noticeable impact on the statistics.

https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/covid-19-variant-data

joed|rtty wrote:

Harambe - "Omicron is spreading fast in NYC and, of course, the unvaccinated are seeing a spike in hospitalizations. Vaccinated... not so much. Big surprise."

Then he points to data from New York that ended on 12/4 (for reference, the 1st Omicron case in New York was confirmed on 12/2). Now, most people familiar with COVID understand that it typically takes about two weeks before someone who has contracted COVID will show up in a hospital:

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/progression-of-covid-19-symptoms

Likewise, others like Lily Hammer are pointing to how Cornell, who sent their students home, are not seeing any severe cases of COVID (college kids have very few severe cases of COVID regardless) on December 14th, three days after Omicron cases began to spike in surveillance testing on 12/11. You are pointing to data that, scientifically speaking, would not provide evidence of your statement.

Good point on the dates for the vaccine effectiveness graph. We can't say anything about Omicron and VE in NYC yet

but....

Given that vaccines and prior infection are clearly doing fine in the UK and in SA, do you actually expect there to be a drop in vaccine efficacy as Omicron takes over? All evidence points to immunity against severe disease holding up VERY WELL + a possibly milder virus.

Again, I fail to see how any of this argues against outstanding vaccine effectiveness.

I'd be perfectly willing to place a $$ bet on the rate-ratio of vaccinated : unvaccinated holding in NYC as the Omicron data rolls in. Nothing I've seen suggests otherwise.

The Lily Hammer wrote:

I take it you're agreeing with me that it was pointless for joe d. to use Cornell for whatever argument he was trying to make.

Didn't pay any attention to Joe D's post so I'm not sure.

But if he was pointing out how ridiculous it is for students to pay tens of thousands of dollars for an online education that could be bettered by six months spent in a library then probably yes.

Harambe wrote:

Nothing is 'crystal clear' and attempting to pass of a quick modelling study done on very early Omicron data reveals how desperate you are to control the narrative. If the authors had though vaccine efficacy was truly -negative- maybe they would have mentioned it in the discussion....

Lastly, please never use the term "OAS" again, it's really unbecoming to see one use word they couldn't understand with a whole year of intense education.

I'm not "desperate" to "control" any narrative. Time is on my side :) OAS is real...and the people pushing vaxx mandates on healthy 5 year olds believing that there's no downside (maybe not you - its not an accusation) will be held to account. I'm here for the long run. Long enough so that when young millennial men hit their 50s and have unexplained cardiac issues I will be able to say 'I told you so' and frankly, 'you should have seen it coming.

Also - OAS is not all that difficult of a concept to understand. Your elitism is unbecoming.

The moment you said "Biden fixed Covid", you exposed yourself as political. The remainder of your response is a feeble attempt at deflection with littered with ad-hominem attacks. Did you take your meds today Harambe?

Wait--nuance? Isn't this still an LRC thread?

Good post. Nice to see one that's not strictly either-or.