"Pandemic of the unvaccinated" CONFIRMED

Harambe wrote:

Conservative Right-Winger wrote:

What's your opinion on why this relentless push to vaxx up every man, woman & child in this country? There's something going on beyond politics that seems to center around the vaxx czar & big pharma.

Because the vaccines prevent severe disease at a rate far greater than they cause injuries across all populations for which it has been approved.

And they still prevent mild cases and transmission to varying degrees depending on booster/strain etc. Usually they are quite effective at this, but Omicron changes the game and we are still in the dark.

That was a poor answer.

Pushing a vaccine on every man woman and child should remain a personal choice.

Simply stating the perceived risk-reward is not a justification for public policy.

Bullet_Proof wrote:

Harambe wrote:

Because the vaccines prevent severe disease at a rate far greater than they cause injuries across all populations for which it has been approved.

And they still prevent mild cases and transmission to varying degrees depending on booster/strain etc. Usually they are quite effective at this, but Omicron changes the game and we are still in the dark.

That was a poor answer.

Pushing a vaccine on every man woman and child should remain a personal choice.

Simply stating the perceived risk-reward is not a justification for public policy.

Reducing strain on the medical infrastructure and reducing community spread clearly are in the domain of public policy. You may disagree that they are justified under the current circumstances, but the case for public health requirements in general are clear and settled law.

Monkeys Skyping wrote:

Bullet_Proof wrote:

That was a poor answer.

Pushing a vaccine on every man woman and child should remain a personal choice.

Simply stating the perceived risk-reward is not a justification for public policy.

Reducing strain on the medical infrastructure and reducing community spread clearly are in the domain of public policy. You may disagree that they are justified under the current circumstances, but the case for public health requirements in general are clear and settled law.

Oh really? How come you dont reduce community spread of the flu? I mean, if public health is as clear and settled as you claim, then why don't you force a vaccine on every man, woman and child?

Bullet_Proof wrote:

Monkeys Skyping wrote:

Reducing strain on the medical infrastructure and reducing community spread clearly are in the domain of public policy. You may disagree that they are justified under the current circumstances, but the case for public health requirements in general are clear and settled law.

Oh really? How come you dont reduce community spread of the flu? I mean, if public health is as clear and settled as you claim, then why don't you force a vaccine on every man, woman and child?

Covid spreads much more aggressively and is easily capable of filling up/over stressing the medical system/hospitals and making deaths surge; even the worst seasons of flu don’t really come near to doing that.

This was a terrible question dude

Silver Linings Dept.: The more antivaxxers, the fewer antivaxxers.

https://people.com/health/washington-state-senator-doug-ericksen-dies-after-covid-19/?amp=true

The perpetual cycle predictably (except to the clueless sheep) continues and big pharma laughs to the bank. The media blasts the agenda 24/7 and incites division amongst the people (vaxxed vs no vaxxed) to distract them from the evil and corruption within the institution. Time to wake up.

Bullet_Proof wrote:

Oh really? How come you dont reduce community spread of the flu? I mean, if public health is as clear and settled as you claim, then why don't you force a vaccine on every man, woman and child?

COVID kills roughly at 10X the rate of the flu. Are you this dense?

Another day of the Pandemic of the Unvaccinated.

Omicron is spreading fast in NYC and, of course, the unvaccinated are seeing a spike in hospitalizations. Vaccinated... not so much. Big surprise.

Symptomatic Covid after 3 shots:

**************

‘I have Covid,’ Jim Cramer says. He says he’s been triple vaccinated and has a mild case

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/20/i-have-covid-jim-cramer-says-he-says-hes-been-triple-vaccinated-and-has-a-mild-case.html

Harambe wrote:

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page#daily

Omicron is spreading fast in NYC and, of course, the unvaccinated are seeing a spike in hospitalizations. Vaccinated... not so much. Big surprise.

Has anyone actually parsed this out to see the actual health situations of the unvaccinated vs. the vaccinated? Maybe unvaccinated are generally more unhealthy? Drinkers, drug users, compulsive eaters, homeless? Obviously plenty of unvaccinated and vaccinated are getting covid, and some of each are going to the hospital. Let's have a hard look at all reasonable questions to make sure we aren't unfairly pandering to the vaccine mills.

Yeah...and that Communist was advocating for forced vaccination allowing the military to oversee it. He says those that refuse should be placed under house arrest. WTH?

https://www.clayandbuck.com/cnbcs-cramer-calls-for-military-enforced-vaccine-mandate/

The guy is getting senile or something; he thinks he lives in China. Lol.

DanM wrote:

Symptomatic Covid after 3 shots:

**************

‘I have Covid,’ Jim Cramer says. He says he’s been triple vaccinated and has a mild case

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/20/i-have-covid-jim-cramer-says-he-says-hes-been-triple-vaccinated-and-has-a-mild-case.html

Lucky for him he was vaccinated.

NachoLibre wrote:

Harambe wrote:

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page#daily

Omicron is spreading fast in NYC and, of course, the unvaccinated are seeing a spike in hospitalizations. Vaccinated... not so much. Big surprise.

Has anyone actually parsed this out to see the actual health situations of the unvaccinated vs. the vaccinated? Maybe unvaccinated are generally more unhealthy? Drinkers, drug users, compulsive eaters, homeless? Obviously plenty of unvaccinated and vaccinated are getting covid, and some of each are going to the hospital. Let's have a hard look at all reasonable questions to make sure we aren't unfairly pandering to the vaccine mills.

The vast majority of the hospitalizations are people with one or more of four (4) medical conditions; heart disease, hypertension, diabetes & the big one - obesity.

The majority of the healthy are not ending up in the hospital & generally experience mild symptoms that self-resolve. I'm a 60 yr old stiff, in top physical condition (bodybuilding & cycling/power walking) & had a bout of the Delta variant last Sept experiencing mild symptoms that needed no medical intervention whatsoever. Also, I have no evidence of the "long Covid" 3 months post-infection, and I feel as strong as ever.

The Left want you to believe it's the "healthy" unvaccinated that are clogging up the hospitals. This is to create fear so they can aggressively pursue their agenda of having every man, woman & child in this country vaxxed up to their eyeballs. 😉

NachoLibre wrote:

Harambe wrote:

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page#daily

Omicron is spreading fast in NYC and, of course, the unvaccinated are seeing a spike in hospitalizations. Vaccinated... not so much. Big surprise.

Has anyone actually parsed this out to see the actual health situations of the unvaccinated vs. the vaccinated? Maybe unvaccinated are generally more unhealthy? Drinkers, drug users, compulsive eaters, homeless? Obviously plenty of unvaccinated and vaccinated are getting covid, and some of each are going to the hospital. Let's have a hard look at all reasonable questions to make sure we aren't unfairly pandering to the vaccine mills.

These data closely match what the phase III trials and later surveillance studies have shown. These studies matched cohorts to ensure these biases were not confounding (or that confounding was greatly limited).

At some point you're just gonna have to accept that the vaccines work really well and you have no evidence to the contrary.

Harambe wrote:

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page#daily

Omicron is spreading fast in NYC and, of course, the unvaccinated are seeing a spike in hospitalizations. Vaccinated... not so much. Big surprise.

Amazing that New York is showing far better efficacy with its vaccines than the entire rest of the planet. Either that is because most New Yorkers have hybrid immunity (good chance of this given the likely extent of infection during the initial pandemic) or they are massaging the data (good chance of this as well).

What Harambe's numbers do not represent is data since Omicron became present (COVID numbers at Cornell jumped on Dec. 11, Harambe's data goes through 12/4) [and in less than a week will likely be predominant (it was 13% of cases prior to the weekend, now it is probably pushing 30%, as Omicron rates have been doubling about every day and a half)]. So drawing conclusions on Omicrons impact on cases, hospitalizations, etc. using data from a week before COVID was really on the radar is pointless. We won't know the impact on hospitalizations for two to three weeks (actually 3-4 weeks given the data lag from New York), and we won't know the impact on deaths until a week or two after that.

Compare Harambe's supposedly gospel numbers from New York with Cornell's numbers:

NYC vaccinated weekly case rate week ending 12/4: 96.81/100,000

Cornell student cases 12/10 - 12/16: 1,557 positive cases / 26,107 students = rate of 5,984.55 cases per 100,000 (more than 60 times the rate NYC is claiming for vaccinated individuals).

Considering that Cornell has a vaccine mandate (except for a religious exemption for a few students) and a vaccination rate of over 97%, the numbers from Cornell should be close to the vaccinated numbers from NYC (same area of the country). The FACT that they are not anywhere close is indicative that cases, hospitalizations and deaths of vaccinated individuals are being added into the numbers for unvaccinated individuals (added to the numerator without affecting the denominator).

joed|rtty wrote:

The FACT that they are not anywhere close is indicative that cases, hospitalizations and deaths of vaccinated individuals are being added into the numbers for unvaccinated individuals (added to the numerator without affecting the denominator).

Boy, sure getting riled up again by evidence that the vaccine is working.

Cornell is a tight knit college campus far away from NYC so I am a bit amused you think their situation is that relevant (other than that you think it makes some case about vaccine efficacy).

And I was referring to the spike in hospitalizations, I am pretty unconcerned about a rise in mild cases in highly vaccinated areas. You seem to have decided to argue against a point I did not make, using faulty logic, and arrive at a conclusion unsupported by the data. Congrats?

P.S. Efficacy numbers from NYC closely match anywhere else if you can do the simplest of transformations to account for base-rate errors and Simpson's paradox.

Also, I am a little confused. Do you expect the vaccinated to far worse under Omicron than the unvaccinated? Am I supposed to "wait 2 weeks" for the vaccinated to start dropping like flies or something (despite being told this several times this fall already...)

Nobody smart is really going to argue against the fact that being unvaccinated puts you at higher risk of infection, hospitalization, and death. Under a fast-spreading scenario the numbers are going to show the unvaccinated faring worse. (just as they do in every scenario, but widespread, high transmissible COVID can remove some confounders)

Unless you wish to argue that the vaccine doesn't prevent against severe disease. Feel free to take that position, makes my life even easier.

As an aside, numbers from London are looking pretty good. Something is weird with the Omicron transmission dynamics for sure. With vaccines we really don't have that much to worry about save hospital capacity for the remaining (deeply selfish and stupid) unvaxxed.

Vaccines aren't really working against Omicron. Cases and hospitalizations on 12/4 would not reflect Omicron (more likely a seasonal transition and influence of delta), as you were claiming:

"Omicron is spreading fast in NYC and, of course, the unvaccinated are seeing a spike in hospitalizations. Vaccinated... not so much. Big surprise."

Vaccine efficacy numbers are inflated, as the data from Cornell reinforces. Unless the New York numbers for vaccinated individuals in the dataset from New York in a week show a similar infection rate in vaccinated individuals as can be clearly shown in the Cornell data (roughly 60 times the rate they are claiming, which I do not expect to happen), it is an indicator that the very data you are basing your assumptions on are severely flawed.

There is no Simpson's paradox concerning the student population at Cornell because you are looking at a population that is fully vaccinated. So stop trying to explain everything away with your beloved Simpson's Paradox. Your data is BS. Own it.