We'll know more if Hull can reproduce that time ever again though getting an elite to rabbit you for all four laps doesn't happen every race, lol
She has literally been rabbited by elites in Diamond League after Diamond League, running 3:57 and 3:58 over and over in 2022 and 2023 while coming 3rd, 4rd, 7th, etc.
Now people are saying she left 6-7 seconds on the track all those times and just needed more runners to pull her along.
doubt the people defending her were doing the same when that dude got super close to 5k world record and everyone was like "bro that was hella suspicious"
Just realized LRC had a (mostly) reasonable take on this.
Quick Take: Where did that come from, Jessica Hull?
At the start of 2023, when Jessica Hull decided to leave the Nike Union Athletics Club so she could return to Australia to be coached by her father Simon, her pb stood at 3:58.81. Now it is 3:50.83, and only four women have ever run faster — Kipyegon, Genzebe Dibaba, Gudaf Tsegay, and Qu Yunxia. Hull was already world-class when she left UAC — her 3:58.81 was the Aussie record and she was 7th at the 2022 Worlds — but she has gone up a level since, perhaps several levels based on today’s evidence.
Hull had been running well in 2024, clocking a pb of 8:24 to take 4th at World Indoors in the 3,000 and running a big pb of 3:55.97 to finish second in the 1500 at Pre., but there was nothing to suggest she was a 3:50 woman. Give Hull a lot of credit. She knew that with Kipyegon leading the way, she would not have a better opportunity to run fast, and she grabbed it with both hands. There is a world where Hull totally blows up after going out in 2:04, but sometimes to get a big reward, you have to take a big risk. That is what Hull did today.
She improved - it happens. And almost everyone else in that race also improved, some by a similar amount. Where's the scrutiny on them?
Whataboutism doesn't weaken the case against her. She won't be the only doped athlete in that race.
It's not whaboutism, it's dealing with issues thoroughly. The 800 guys all had massive leaps. This means clearly the conditions, track etc were exceptional, better than usual, not just for her but for just about everyone. It is something you have not taken into account at all, and refuse to consider. Her improvement was only really about 2 secs ahead of the curve.
Unless somehow the wind swirls counter-clockwise around the stadium.
This thought should not be immediately dismissed.
The stadium has an unusual design. Looks like large openings under the canopies on three sides but not on the fourth side.
We need a good fluid mechanics engineer to take a look at the stadium design along with the wind direction during the meet. Probably not many such engineers in LRC but here's hoping.
As I have said constantly - it was not just Jess Hull, and not just the women's 1500, but other races like the men's 800 where there were massive improvements by seasoned athletes. There was something going on for sure and I am not in the "it just means everyone was doping" camp, in terms of the explanation for that.
"this is far from the first time she’s had such an opportunity" - what about the others? How do you explain so many others in the race posting massive PBs?
Looking at the others in that race who set PBs doesn't help Hull the way you think it does:
Laura Muir and Linden Hall - Like Hull, they've been on the elite pro circuit with lots of opportunities to run in fast races the past several years. Yet unlike Hull, they only set marginal PBs of less than a second in Paris. Why were their PBs so slight compared to Hull's?
Georgia Bell - highly unusual progression/career with no 1500 results for 2018-2020 listed in World Athletics profile and no high level racing in 2021 or 2022; not sure how that helps Hull's case given that their careers are not at all alike
Susan Ejore - her 3:57 is in line with her other performances this year, including a 3:58 in May; finished 3rd at the Kenyan Olympic Trials, running 4:00 at high altitude in Nairobi; someone like that should be able to run 3:57 with good conditions.
Sarah Healy - her improvement from 3:59 to 3:57 is reasonable for someone who is only 23; certainly hasn't had all the opportunities the past several years to run in the fast races that Hull has had
Agathe Guillemot - eye-catching improvement from 4:12 in 2022 to 4:03 last year to 3:58 this year, but like Healy, she's still on the younger side (today is her 25th birthday) and she hasn't had all the opportunities to run in the fast races that Hull has had the past several years
Katie Snowden and Ciara Mageean - neither ran a PB
Nigist Getachew - only 22, no 1500 results listed before this year in her World Athletics profile, only finished two 1500 races this year before last weekend, winning both; very difficult to establish a baseline with someone like that, but her 3:58.98 in Paris is in line with the the four sub-2:00 800 races she's run earlier this year.
Esther Guerrero - longtime runner age 34 who ran less than a half-second than she did last year
Based on those contexts, I don't see how any one of those runners' performances help make the case that there just must have been something magical in the air in Paris last weekend to explain how Hull ran at a level that is unlike anything she's done before in her established career.
I reiterate and adjust slightly based on one of the other responses I got: If there’s any oversimplification, it’s attributing her 3:50 merely (or mainly) to the conditions of the race. There has to be a lot more to it than that.
Muir has been below her best this year but still ran an Area record in that race.
In any case I agree that the conditions are not the sole explanation (and you omitted the men's 800 and those improvements) - I just don't automatically assume she improved more than others therefore was doping. There are any number of reasons - she had the perfect rabbit and was on her back for most of the race. She had just come down from altitude. She maybe had a good day or a career day. She maybe tried different buffering gel. She had a lighter week before racing than usual. Any of these have to factor in too, and other stuff we know nothing about.
I will say if I am Jess Hull, then for the 3 weeks leading into the OGs, I would want to replicate the training I did in the 3 weeks leading up to that race.
She improved - it happens. And almost everyone else in that race also improved, some by a similar amount. Where's the scrutiny on them?
This is the moment when I realized engaging with you is a waste of time.
"everyone else in that race also improved" - wow, what a f-ing genius take - that's how you explain it? You think the scrutiny should be the same for all of these athletes even though each of them have a unique profile, history and set of circumstances in the sport?
The fact that you are even entertaining that a 4 second PR at the performance level of 4.02 down to 3.58 is even remotely equivalent to a 5 second PR at the performance level of 3.55 down to 3.50 (Guillemot) quite simply shows me you don't have the knowledge or understanding of the event and even running performance to be having a discussion with even 95% of people on this thread.
So that's where our time ends pal. I'm not wasting any more characters on you - go learn something about the sport before you start chirping you keyboard warrior weasel.
Name calling? That's what you resort to when you've lost the argument. Makes you a keyboard warrior (and other things). Good riddance.
Laura Muir posted a photo of her and Hull about to hug post-race. If Muir believes Jessica Hull is clean, the LRC community should lay off. She is the one with the actual stakes and the insider knowledge.
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