Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

The only annoying thing about this thread is that we've had like 3 better ones on this exact topic in the past, but everyone here is circlejerking this one guy just for posting his schedule lmao.

Your math needs some work here. 4:50 per mile is 12.43mph. 65% of that is 8.08 mph which is 7:26 per mile. So that's the top end or fastest being talked about for your easy runs. I think this is one reason a lot of people won't or don't train like this, even the basic level there is quite a bit to try and have to understand. Once you get past that, it's an interesting concept.

I've seen the NAZ elite and Rosario talk about MAS and that's exactly how they convert it. As I understand it that's how we are talking about in this thread as well.

Well that makes more sense. I've had a spreadsheet with some percentages but apparently i f*cked something up converting from seconds. MPH is a much easier conversion, I'll be switching to that...

Really. 290/.65 =446s=7:26 is harder than converting to mph?

Honestly though everyone makes this too hard for the hobby jogger. Go run easy runs at 90s-180s off 5k pace. Do threshold efforts at 20-40s off. So some sprints. Do some races to get used to pushing yourself. It is close enough for people not aiming to push the limits as to how much they can train.

I may have failed math 150, but that doesn't mean I was going to start running my easy days at 630 pace

Wow, that tip comes close to the all star LRC tip :'just run baby'

Wait...so a 15 minute 5k'er and a 28 minute 5k'er are both working at the same relative intensity to be able to just base paces off the 5k race times? Source?

I keep flip flopping when it comes to this thread. I just can't get my head around how anyone can long term like this and not do any 3-5k race pace or speed work? Aside from the racing. It just counters everything, any coach ever has told me. Yet it clearly works for some. Hmmmm.

Well none of the posters doing this, including Kristoffer Ingebrigtsen, are running races shorter than 5k, so there's that.

Because you don't need to do any race pace stuff to be fast. At least read the thread dude. Its the theory of maximal training load pushing up your threshold from below. This will cause reactively your race paces at all levels get faster. You are probably less likely to get injured as well I would argue training like this. If you know how to pace or good target paces from your training it really doesn't matter you might not have run 5k pace in weeks or even into the months. Other aerobic sports have known this for a long time. I don't know why it's so hard for runners to understand.

You find percent of pace by dividing by percentage. This is equivalent to multiplying speed by percent.

I see MAS (aka vVO2Max) has been brought up. I like using this myself, particularly when not racing. I’ll usually do a 2400m time trial, which puts me around 8 minutes +/-. I know some sources suggest 5-7 minutes, but since I like using Daniels’ equations and he cites 8-10 minutes as vVO2Max, I yield to his suggestion. Plus, it ensures that if anything, I’ll be conservative in my pace estimates.

I think it’s more practical than running 3-5 time trials to get your CS a la lexel and less tedious than blood draws for lactate. Although, it is interesting to construct your lactate curve and track it every 6 weeks, or so, over the course of a build up.

The other benefit, is if you do want to target CS and other thresholds, it’s easy to do since most of them are referred to as a duration in minutes that you could race at.

So, if you’re using your MAS/vVO2Max pace:

30 min (CS) = MAS/0.93

60 min (LT) = MAS/0.89

90 min = MAS/0.86

150 min = MAS/0.83

There are plenty of workouts you can come up with and perform in that pace range, specifically the 60-150 minute range, where you get in 30+ minutes of work and build that stimulus over the course of weeks and months.

Like sirpoc, I’ve also observed that I usually don’t exceed 65% MAS on my easy runs. I’m sure there are people who can do that (probably the really fast guys popping up on this thread to tell us how much we suck haha), but I find that two tempo sessions and a long run with tempo work mixed in, “force” me to run very easy otherwise.

You got some links? I'd be keen to read those and compare to the info here. The more perspectives, the better.

I’ve referred to these myself. Perhaps these are what the poster has in mind too.

Where in earth are you getting that from? Care to point out any place where that was said? Or are you just making up imaginary things?

The point is simply that if our 28 min guy runs workouts at 9:20 or 9:40 just doesn't matter. They aren't running 12 hours/week and doing 2+ hours of quality work or pushing any limits. If they want to go to lab and find their max heart rate, measure lactate, and so on go for it. But it isn't needed. Figuring out that one guy is running a 5k and 95% and tempos at 85% and the other is doing 5ks at 90% an tempos at 80% just isn't that important.

If you want to cosplay at being elite and going to levels of detail that don't matter for you, go for it. But you don't have to.

Imagine gatekeeping running, lmao. The goal of many here is to find how to train optimally, given limited talent and time. Once you have maxed out those constraints, you need to get into the details to improve.

I mean, yeah at the end of the day, you're not going to win anything other than the local parkrun. You're not going to make any money by running. So what's the point?

It's a hobby, it doesn't need to have a point, other than enjoying the process. Just ask the millions of fat slow cyclists spending thousands on carbon bikes, power meters, fancy computers etc etc

I take it you'd consider buying the latest shoe tech also 'cosplaying at being elite'?

We see with MAS, it matters how we define things. It makes a difference if you use a 5min or 8min all-out for MAS. 8minutes is too long imo. Billat et al, found that tlim (time to exhaustion at vVO2max) is inverse correlated to performance.

CV/CS/CP is in the area of 88-92%VO2max, typically 90%. So i have CV = 90%MAS (on average).

That's written a bit harshly, but it's true in the meantime. The term "Norwegian approach" alone is interpreted differently here and then as an all-powerful magic word, which is somehow laughable. From my point of view, there are two findings:
1. Who trains low mileage, should accommodate as much quality as possible. This includes threshold training, but not only. It's nonsense to think that all you need is just threshold in your low mileage schedule.
2. Who trains low mileage, does it consciously. You can and want to train much harder workouts than treshold, you want to minimize the risk of injury, you have problems with higher volume or you simply don't have time for much training.

The classic threads titled "Getting the most out of lower mileage" and "Real Low Mileage performers" are the gold standard for low mileage fans. There's a lot of valuable stuff in there. Very interesting: Bruce Tulloh, time efficient running (4 days plan) and "Bruce Tulloh on the truth about running".