Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

Thank you. I do wonder what was going on yesterday then on my 6x1600. I'm doing something tomorrow, probably 5x2k so will try again. As I said, today was very even readings with nothing weird going on - and useable data. Anyway, a small side experiment to add to this thread. I think shirtboy said he has one as well, maybe he's been experimenting.

All I know is that my Stryd is extremely sensitive when it comes to any sort of incline. The power goes up quite significantly when starting a hill or even just a small curb, so it's been quite the eye-opener.

I recently did an all-out 1k on a dirt road with some ups and downs, but mostly flat terrain, and the

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I've been using it for every single run since I bought it, and I purely run by power now, as my HR can fluctuate a bit from day to day, and there's a severe lack of flat terrain where I live.

Have you done a firmware update?

Did you fixed the Stryd pod correctly to the shoe?

Have you calibrated your Stryd pod? (a calibration factor can be set)

Set your weight and height correctly?

...

Yep. Latest gen Stryd. Latest firmware. Height, weight, calibrated. Seemed to work perfectly today, but was bordering on useless yesterday. The swing in power for the same pace reps, on a loop yesterday - cannot even be close to being right. Or if that's just the margin or error of the pod, for when you are going pretty hard, that's no good for me. However, easy run today data looks excellent. One more try tomorrow. I didn't change anything today from yesterday's set up.

I don't really care what number it spits out, power is made up anyway - even in cycling. Just as long as it's consistent for me.

Just an update. The power seems to be much more stable the last few days. So, let's see how it goes. I still have no idea what was going on the first few runs. I'll keep this thread updated and see if there's any consistency to % of running FTP for the range of efforts. I'm going to judt go off my cycling principle and estimate my FTP based on my 5 k this morning. My PB for 10 miles on the bike and 5k for running are within 30 seconds of each other and the conversion always worked out very well. i.e what I could do for 25 miles (Coggan's definition of what FTP was based on many arguments on the time Trialling forum) was 94% of my 10 mile pace so matter what my actual fitness levels were. That's possible highly individual to me, but let's see if it translates to running. So, FTP I'm setting as 94% of this morning's new 5k PB.

Incidentally , I bought a new watch finally to make the most of this Stryd - and it has native Garmin power. A little side, I don't know how it calculates power - it's 50w up on the stryd, however, the power plots are VERY and I mean VERY closely matched. Which is a big suprise.

Anyway, this thread has totally slowed down but I figure this could really be useful long term, if we can get consistent data to add to the paces and % of LTHR we have spoken about.

I'm really interested in this 👍🏻 power is my preferred option so will be interesting. It would be great to have it laid out, perhaps like the paces as a percetile of FTP 😊 I don't understand what you mean by Coggan's definition of FTP? it takes different people different lengths to do 40km time trial , right?

Hi mate, I've had many a chat as many others have with Coggan on the Time Trialing forum over the years. He sticks to his guns, that FTP is roughly the power a well trained rider can do for a 40km / 25 mile Time Trial. For me this was around 48-50 mins depending on the terrain.

What I mean is, I did 10 mile time trials often as well as 25 mile TTs. I was in the 18 min range for a 10 mile. I very consistently hold about 94% of my 10 mile power for 25 miles. So if I hadn't races a 25 in a while, I would just use 94% of my 10 mile power to set my FTP. My 5k running time is only 30 seconds faster than my 10 mile TT, so I'm going to work on the same theory. 94% of this as a guestimate for my FTP. I hope that makes sense. Note: I'm not saying do this for everyone. But it worked out consistently for years and years on the bike for me, that I have pretty good confidence in it - so let's see how it translates to running. If it does, it will be a pretty useful starting point.

Just don't make up any illusions from this.Cycling VS Running is very different in many ways.

I have used a Stryd for a while now. This is probably not a bad estimate. The power I can do for an hour is roughly 93% of what I can do for a 5k. I used to be in some stryd groups when I first started out and this was the kind of range others were finding. As I've gotten slower overall, injuries and stuff that % has still stayed the same.

for me my FTP is about 95% of my 5k power. I use Stryd 3 generation. In my country stryd is more popular than some others I think Im slower runner though. Old and and in 23-24 min range. Probably for faster guy the % is mayb tiny less but I think good ballpark. Nice thread I like the theory

When I was testing RunScribe pods i had some weird behaviour, it turned out my laces tapping against the pod and the pod not being as secure and move through the gait cycle. Since using Stryd I’ve always tried to ensure the appear, maybe correlates why you were not seeing an issue at slower paces?

Finally got to the end of reading this exactly feedback on running training, lots to incorporate and review KI strava too!

You know what, you could be right here. That was the end of a pair of Hokas I had when I first started using the stride, getting a few more miles out of a pair of rocket X before putting them in the bin and you know what, the laces were insanely long. They always have been on rocket X that I've had. I've been using a different model with shorter paces since I've had better readings and the normal runs have just been in my Clifton's.l which I didn't have a problem with since the start. Also not particularly long, flappy laces.

Just want to make a comment as this amazing thread tapers off and show my appreciation for the quality of this discussion (on the whole).

I'm more focused on middle distance events myself, but I think the approach discussed here is still applicable, even if the specifics aren't entirely. Hell, we could even get philosophical and take some life lessons from this. We've all got limited time, to various extents, and so we should try to use it as effectively as possible. That means doing the most amount of productive work possible, whilst taking the long view and realising that any time spent injured or burnt out is time not spent being productive.

One another note, it seems like the blood lactate threshold corresponds somehow to another physiological threshold of fatigue, which starts to accumulate very quickly if you go above it. I wonder if anyone has any idea why this is? To my knowledge it's not because lactic acid is actually doing any damage directly. Marius Bakken talks a lot about muscle tone, but I'm not sure how widely accepted/understood this is.

The last paragraph is a really good question. It's actually quite shocking, when you consider how being a little bit over lactate threshold seems to create an absolutely abnormal amount of extra fatigue compared to working under it, for even a small amount of time. All I can report is that has been the case across both sports I've spoken a about, but seems to be even more drastic in my running fatigue. Perhaps the whole force, impact etc. is definitely a factor in this. I do think understanding this , will be ultimately what makes this style of training successful. As if you understand this, but still can't be disciplined enough to not push the workout, you'll ultimately end up cracking.

Sirpoc, do you plan on increasing the volume of the workouts from 10k of work to 12k or beyond? My understand is that Jakob does 60 minutes broken into two sessions each day. Two hours a week. 3 x 40 minute sessions is also two hours a week. The 3 x 40 might even be at a higher intensity since Jakob’s AM sessions are pretty tame. So maybe you could do 40 mins sub-threshold in three days for a bigger stimulus?

Not Sirpoc here, but I think capping a threshold session at 10K work is the wise call.

Daniels caps his threshold session at 10% of weekly mileage and/or 10K at the maximum for a single session.

Jacob is irrelevant here. Don't worry about what Jacob is doing. What we are doing here has basically nothing to do with Jacob. He is doubling up 2x days and that's a whole another topic. He's possibly doing both sessions more controlled than ours - and like you say the morning one is very easy, relatively.

I *might* go beyond 10k of work, like Kristoffer has, but you also need to increase the length of your daily runs and long runs slowly to allow for this progression. For example, at first he was doing 3x3k but finally stretched that to 4x3k after he started to increase his overall volume. He's at 8+ hours a week. I'm barely touching 7. Whatever I do, if you read back, I'm around 75/25 in terms of work in zones. That is split between under 70% HR in simplistic terms for the easy/75 and almost all of the 25 (apart from park runs) are sub threshold. I think this is about the limit, give or take a couple of percent. If I wanted to do more, I would actually like to see the easy creep up nearer 80%, before I added on extra distance to the sun threshold days. I think you can probably get away with low to mid 70s in terms of "easy" running percentage on reasonably low hours (which is what I consider my training). Much higher than the 8+ for someone like Kristoffer I, then you are into doubles territory potentially being the best way. That's a whole different ball game as I said before and definitely not what we are talking about here. Sorry to emphasis that point like a broken record, but that needs to be made very clear.

It's not correct to say this has nothing to do with the training of Jakob. We must understand he doesn't run double thresholds every week, also he not always measure lactate.

Dude. You have clearly not read thread. Jacob is irrelevant here. He is not even factor in the discussion. KI definitely factor. He also measure lactate on all sessions. We know for sure 100%> only time he not is when lactate meter was broken once and one time he forgot. I follow him for long time , many others do so we know. spoc not mention once to copy Jacob. This thread is totally different talk to adapt to hobby jogger. Not elite. I think you need to re read thread I think you confuse or misunderstood.