Tom “Tinman” Schwartz and Drew Hunter/Tinman Elite have parted ways

wejo wrote:

TINMAN ELITE STATEMENT, 4/25/21

First and foremost, we’d like to address our silence about the decision to part ways with Coach Schwartz. Our initial mutual aim with Coach Schwartz was to keep this news confidential until after the Olympic Trials

These guys are even dumber than they look! They go around practically screaming "LOOK AT US!!" and certainly have successfully built an audience happy to scrutinize their content and moves and then convince themselves that something like firing their eponymous coach will go unnoticed for 4 months?!?! If this isn't proof that these guys are just astoundingly more lucky than good... I hope to heaven that Parsons dropping copious amounts of LSD each and every week explains this level of out-of-touch perspective.

lrcreader wrote:

Some cookie cutter PR statement. So they're going to keep his name? Also sounds like they're pushing the blame of health and performance on Tinman.

I'm not a fan of the coach, Hunter or the rest, but I think the press release is fine so long as it is true.

any truth here wrote:

Tinman gave them the same exact workouts that he prescribes his hobby jogger clients. He didn't have any administrative responsibilities such as planning travel. Tinman refused to give up his lucrative private coaching of 12 years olds and 50 year olds to focus on pro coaching.

Trying to get caught up on this thread. I don't have any personal insight into this more than anyone else. I have no idea about the workout prescribed and can see why Hunter might want to switch things up.

If Tinman really was getting paid $2k a month (we haven't confirmed that), then it would be impossible for him to give up his outside coaching. He has to make a living. Prior to moving to Boulder he had a teaching gig as his main source of income.

Ben True revealed on the LetsRun.com podcast he pays a guy $20k a year to just train with him.

This thing might have been destined to fail just the way it was set up. Sounds like it wasn't run like the other professional groups. I just looked this up. NAZ Elite is a non profit. Ben Rosario is listed on its tax forms as getting paid $84,000. Not sure if he separately has any endorsement deals, camps, or gets a percentage of his athletes earnings. Someone on here might know.

Ben Thomas Oregon assistant coach makes $120k. Presumably can do camps on top of that. Not sure if he has Nike side deal but might. Robert Johnson head coach at Oregon makes $350k base salary.

Got to assume Jerry Schumacher is in that range as well.

We should do an article on what runners pay their pro coaches. I bet it spans a wide spectrum. Meanwhile agents are smart and take 15%.

Lot of "Coach Schwartz" in there...looks like they intend to steal the name #stopthesteal

It seems like everyone involved did a really bad job of negotiating and communicating expectations from the beginning.

It's reasonable for a pro team to expect to be their coach's sole (or at least primary) focus. But the time to discuss this was BEFORE this whole project started. On day one there should have been a firm understanding by all parties of just how much time the team required and how much outside work was acceptable.

It is more than reasonable to expect to be paid way more than $2K/month to coach a pro team. But this coach agreed to work for that amount. Again, if he didn't like it, he could have demanded more or walked before he signed on.

Also perfectly reasonable for Tinman to require some kind of payment for things being sold under his name. Also something that should have been negotiated from the get go.

Just seems like all this could have been avoided with about 5 minutes of upfront communication and negotiation.

papajs wrote:

Lot of "Coach Schwartz" in there...looks like they intend to steal the name #stopthesteal

I think "Tinman Elite" is legally theirs (or Drew Hunter's). I don't know if they'll sell out merch or get the same support/following if they continue without changing the name though. I don't know why they named the team after his nickname to begin with.

This was such an awful setup for a professional group. How did anyone think this would work?

wejo wrote:

If Tinman really was getting paid $2k a month (we haven't confirmed that) . . .

I believe we have confirmed it with his wife. If he lies to Tammy about his income, then I will reconsider my growing distaste for Cory Leslie's Running Club.

I feel like it'd actually be in their best interest to change the name now. The fact that the name of the group is associated with this (ever growing) negative sentiment cannot be good for brand/sales. Even if someone is a supporter of the team, there's a solid chance they wouldn't want to wear it on their sleeve just to avoid any judgement/drama they might think will be cast their way.

Here are the FACTS:

-Tinman refused to give up his main job of selling training plans to middle school athletes and 75 year old hobby joggers

-Tinman was busy doing other things such as getting a doctorate degree

-Tinman was unable to connect with his athletes on a personal level. He came off as grumpy, bossy, and arrogant

-Tinman was ineffective as a coach, as evidenced by the extremely high injury rate

-The team lost faith in him

No need to feel sorry for Tom, he is charging 200 bucks PER MONTH for copy and pasted training. He's doing great financially.

Does Drew Hunter have an agent? I’d think I would be an agent’s responsibility to help with such negotiations.

What you should be asking is if Tinman has an agent (answer is no). Drew and Tinman Elite were on top of things - contracts, trademarks, etc. Tom is the one that wasn’t prepared for all of this.

On top of trademarks? They literally filed for the Tinman Elite trademark in December of 2020 after having already used it for multiple years to sell merch. Plus, that trademark hasn't even been approved. I'm guessing they knew this was going to happen and realized they needed to try and quick protect their assets.

any truth here wrote:

Here are the FACTS:

-Tinman refused to give up his main job of selling training plans to middle school athletes and 75 year old hobby joggers

-Tinman was busy doing other things such as getting a doctorate degree

-Tinman was unable to connect with his athletes on a personal level. He came off as grumpy, bossy, and arrogant

-Tinman was ineffective as a coach, as evidenced by the extremely high injury rate

-The team lost faith in him

No need to feel sorry for Tom, he is charging 200 bucks PER MONTH for copy and pasted training. He's doing great financially.

You forgot a couple things:

-Tinman was helping coach Tammy's middle school team

-Tinman was planning for a week long high school summer running camp in July in Flag. Guess he didn't think any of his guys might make an Olympic team or need his services in July.

-Tinman has a real problem with his priorities

Anybody think any other pro coaches are this overcommitted?

BowermanBRO wrote:

On top of trademarks? They literally filed for the Tinman Elite trademark in December of 2020 after having already used it for multiple years to sell merch. Plus, that trademark hasn't even been approved. I'm guessing they knew this was going to happen and realized they needed to try and quick protect their assets.

Also, why didn't they ensure that their coach had a proper contract to prevent unneeded disruptions like this? Paying the coach a pittance $2000 a month for the entire team pretty much ensured that Schwartz couldn't spend all his time on them.

They shot themselves in the foot from the get go. Do you think Schumacher worries about his job security?

He wouldn't NEED to be overcommitted if he was paid properly to coach this team. Yes, this is Tinman's fault AND Drew's fault. What a terrible arrangement. Why didn't Adidas give them a contract to hire a full time coach? Ridiculous.

` wrote:

Paying the coach a pittance $2000 a month for the entire team pretty much ensured that Schwartz couldn't spend all his time on them.

They shot themselves in the foot from the get go. Do you think Schumacher worries about his job security?

+2000

` wrote:

[quote]Also... wrote:

[quote]any truth here wrote:

He wouldn't NEED to be overcommitted if he was paid properly to coach this team. Yes, this is Tinman's fault AND Drew's fault. What a terrible arrangement. Why didn't Adidas give them a contract to hire a full time coach? Ridiculous.

I'm afraid Tammy neglected to mention how much Drew paid Tom each year. Tom was paid much more than $24K a year. More than double that. For a very part time gig.

Also... wrote:

` wrote:

[quote]Also... wrote:

[quote]any truth here wrote:

He wouldn't NEED to be overcommitted if he was paid properly to coach this team. Yes, this is Tinman's fault AND Drew's fault. What a terrible arrangement. Why didn't Adidas give them a contract to hire a full time coach? Ridiculous.

I'm afraid Tammy neglected to mention how much Drew paid Tom each year. Tom was paid much more than $24K a year. More than double that. For a very part time gig.

Source on that? I've only heard from Tom's wife, and I believe her over you, Mr. Anonymous.