Nobody should be "fine" with civilian casualties, least of all women and children amputees. It wrenches your stomach, as the article intends.
No one on this board is justifying kids having legs blown off - the post is a hatchet job.
Call it "whataboutism", but the horrible fact is this happens in large-scale armed conflict.
In the West Bank, Yemen, and in "Separatist" regions of the Ukraine.
The Ukraine side have and use artillery and missiles, too - some of which we gave them, with more on the way.
We ought to be avoiding wars. Not inciting and conducting them.
The United States has participated in over 100 wars. Quite a few civilians lost limbs in those. That this is oblivious or of no concern speaks to hypocritical bias.
This is a list of wars and rebellions involving the United States of America. Currently, there are 107 wars on this list, 3 of which are ongoing. USA defeat USA victory Another result (e.g. a treaty or peace without a clear r...
Nobody should be "fine" with civilian casualties, least of all women and children amputees. It wrenches your stomach, as the article intends.
No one on this board is justifying kids having legs blown off - the post is a hatchet job.
Call it "whataboutism", but the horrible fact is this happens in large-scale armed conflict.
In the West Bank, Yemen, and in "Separatist" regions of the Ukraine.
The Ukraine side have and use artillery and missiles, too - some of which we gave them, with more on the way.
We ought to be avoiding wars. Not inciting and conducting them.
The United States has participated in over 100 wars. Quite a few civilians lost limbs in those. That this is oblivious or of no concern speaks to hypocritical bias.
If you had told me when I was a teenager, full of rage towards the Republican party for what they were doing to Iraq and Afghanistan, that it would be the Democrats who started most of the wars in my lifetime, I would have laughed in your face. https://t.co/FJJRLCqZeH
Current count is 1730 Soldiers who have surrendered over the last few days at the Azovstal Steel Plant. More are known to be holding out, including Commanders.
The plethora of "New Speak" substitutions for "surrender" screams propaganda bias.
Aside from "surrender", the only suitable term applying when laying down arms and giving, yourselves up to the other side, Western MSM headlines and descriptions state Ukrainian (former) combatants there "accomplished their mission", "abandoned the site", "were evacuated", "were ordered to leave", "are being exchanged", "were rescued"...
Euphemistic messaging was consistent, indicating a kind of blatant media collusion.
Realizing the impossibility of a positive spin job now, the Ukraine Military now refuses to comment altogether.
As many as 1,700 Ukrainian soldiers are likely to have surrendered from the Mariupol Azovstal steel factory. An unknown number of Ukrainian forces remain inside the factory. Once Russia has secured Mariupol, it is likely they will move their forces to reinforce operations in the Donbas. Staunch Ukrainian resistance in Mariupol since the start of the war means Russian forces in the area must be re-equipped and refurbished before they can be redeployed effectively. This can be a lengthy process when done thoroughly. Russian commanders, however, are under pressure to demonstrably achieve operational objectives. This means that Russia will probably redistribute their forces swiftly without adequate preparation, which risks further force attrition.
I assume this post, predictably, is to demonstrate a source which used the word "surrender" referring to Azovstal combatants giving themselves up -- as if providing one example disproves that a great many news outlets use/used euphemistic phrases.
These feel-good substitutions say something about widespread (lack of) objectivity in news reporting - and in this thread.
I remember the Bill Clinton MTV appearance well. Some young people mind-f#cking never changes...
If you had told me when I was a teenager, full of rage towards the Republican party for what they were doing to Iraq and Afghanistan, that it would be the Democrats who started most of the wars in my lifetime, I would have laughed in your face. https://t.co/FJJRLCqZeH
Maybe if Eric Clapton can figure out how to launch proxy wars and interventions on multiple continents while sanctioning 1/3 of the world’s population, they’ll restore his reputation and let him jam too. https://t.co/OGqMCsllh4
What Russia is doing is worse -- so we care about Russian misdeeds more. It's really that simple.
If you're a truly moral person, you should give attention proportionately to Bad Things based on how Bad they are. You focus way too much on Ukraine -- which is far Less Bad than Russia for reasons we all agree on (murderously aggressive invasion, civilian bombing, etc).
This is the contradiction you can not novelize yourself out of.
Anyone who has access to media sources outside of Russia and still supports Putin is immoral.
"Agree with what I say or you're evil." Not an logical argument. Fallacy of "moral equivalence".
Junior Interns here from the Ministry of Truth equate anything other than unquestioning support for every Ukraine statement and action as "supporting Putin".
If we can't reconcile truth and consistently apply a moral compass, we're liars and hypocrites.
No. It’s not. If Russia chooses to withdraw they lost pride. If Ukraine chooses to withdraw they lose their country. The disparate outcomes of what you deem equivalent actions makes them wholly unequal. You know this, so stop playing dumb (unless it’s not an act).
So what? Crimea was not part of Russia in 2013 and most civilized nations realize it’s not part of Russia now. If I sell you an antique car that I’ve owned for the last 50 years, can I just come take it back after a year? After all, it’s been in my possession for 50 of the last 51 years. No. That would be illegal.
Nobody believes the referendum in Crimea was even remotely democratic. Just like similar referendums that Russia will hold in territory they occupy in Ukraine will not be democratic. Unless The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is your model for democracy.
I am sure Crimea's vote to re-join Russia was swayed. But 97% in favour?
After Russia invaded and installed a new government. In the 20 years prior to the referendum there were no polls that suggested numbers anywhere near that high. Most pre-invasion polling showed that between 20 and 60% of the population supported joining Russia. Regardless, that's not really how international politics works, unless you just believe in a "might makes right" code... in which case there can be no war crimes for you to climb up on your high horse about.
Anyway you slice it, the will of the People and a clear majority is demonstrated. Is it only "democracy" when we like the result?
Wrong again. Can this board hold a referendum on whether you and carmine should be allowed to post? Does it make it binding if we do and you're voted off the island? It would be the "will of the People".
The hallmarks of "democracy" are suspect in DPR, but less so than Ukraine, where political assassinations, roundups, imprisonment, a vendettas were not uncommon before the war.
While these things did happen and still do happen, I would say they aren't common as you imply them to be. In fact, they are far more common in Russia, where Putin has unilaterally changed the constitution so that he can be Tsar for Life. Hell, more Russian oligarchs have died in the last three months than Ukrainian politicians in the last 10 years (excluding ones killed by Russian troops).
Now, under Martial Law, a dozen Ukraine political parties have been banned, media outlets and reporters silenced, and uncounted opponents rounded up, jailed, or killed based on affiliation, suspicion, or pretense.
Yes, some political parties have been banned in Ukraine - all it took was for another country to invade. A number of opposition political parties are also banned in Russia and countless opponents have been jailed, poisoned, or otherwise killed off. No invasion needed; just a ruthless dictator named Vladimir Putin. According to Reporters without Borders, Ukraine ranks 106 out of 180 countries in their World Press Freedom Index. For reference, the United States is 42nd. Russia 155th. In March 2022, the New York Times withdrew its staff from Moscow due to Russia's new laws that criminalize independent reporting (I believe the NYTs kept their Moscow bureau open throughout the Cold War). Maybe Russia could learn something from Ukraine on media freedoms.
The Ukraine is Europe's poorest country. Yet peppered with Billionaire Oligarchs. The political and business landscape has long been a corrupt, in-fighting Kleptocracy overseen by dangerous police state on the take. The Azov Battalion began as a private Army for one Oligarch.
Again, this sounds a lot like Russia. Only Russia is more corrupt, people and the media have fewer freedoms, the government is more likely to blow up their own citizens in an apartment building, they like to invade neighboring counties, and they have nuclear weapons.
Suddenly, Ukraine are do-no-wrong Golden Boys we can trust with tens of billions of goods and money? Everyone has got their hands out. As with Covid relief packages which saw the well-connected, organized crime, and foreign scammers get rich, this is another taxpayer boondoggle.
Well, if we can't trust American citizens with government spending (as you demonstrate with COVID relief funds), then I'm glad this money is being given to Ukraine where I at least get some entertainment watching Russian tanks get blown up. Fortunately, the majority of Americans disagree with you, and as you said - the will of the people and the clear majority is demonstrated. You do believe in democracy, don't you?
Why are we tossing billions like Mardi Gras beads?
Because it's the right thing to do. For somebody that spends all their time riding around on their moral high horse, you seem to have a tenuous grasp of right and wrong. In most jurisdictions, firefights are not obligated to run into a burning building to save someone. But, sometimes they do because they can, and it's a good thing to do. Are we obligated to help Ukraine? No. Is it the right thing to do? Yes. Was Russia wrong to invade Ukraine? Yes.
Because Ukrainians are willing or being forced to shoulder Western arms and kill Russians, something we've we trained them to do for 8 years. End justifies the means?
I watched the AAU livestream on the Future of Ukrainian Higher Education with President Zelenskyy earlier this week. I recognize that he's formerly an actor, but he certainly didn't sound like someone who was being "forced to should Western arms" but rather somebody who was desperate to save his country from Russian invaders, was distraught about the senseless destruction that the Russian invaders were causing, and troubled by the toll that Russian aggression was causing for civilians in Ukraine.
Inevitably, these arms are sold on the black market or end up in the wrong hands, which we saw in Libya, Iraq, Syria, Vietnam, Korea, and notably and recently, Afghanistan. The Taliban have Apache helicopters. Looting and stealing is done by all sides in every conflict.
Small price to pay for the defense of Ukraine's sovereignty. Have you seen any evidence of Taliban flying Apache helicopters? There is evidence of them flying a Black Hawk, but they don't have the equipment or ability to perform the maintenance needed. So, it's not like the Taliban is going to be launching any sort of massive air assault.
Aid shipments to Africa end up warehouses controlled by War Lords.
Ah.. so it's just a matter of money for you! All your moral arguments about how everybody was unfairly ignoring the atrocities committed by Ukrainian troops were just bluster to hide your true, financial motives. It doesn't matter what happens to anybody else in the world, as long as your taxes don't go up! Gotcha.
We've seen Gold bars hidden in Iraqi fuel tanks, Georgians stole new tractors from a Ukraine Tractor dealership, Russians are being killed for their cell phones. Just last week, an Art Collector in a San Antonio goodwill store found an ancient Roman bust stolen by an American soldier from Germany in WWII.
What is this Russians being killed for their cell phones? You mean, Russian soldiers / generals are using unsecured communications, which allows them to be located and killed. Yes. That probably happens. Putin doesn't care about his citizens enough to equip them properly for an invasion. And what about Georgians stealing tractors? All I can find is that John Deere remotely disabled a bunch of tractors stolen by Russian troops from dealerships in Ukraine.
Many Sheeple here can't seem to wrap their head around situational complexity beyond "us vs. them".
Many selfish people here looking to blame the victim, when Russia is the sole cause of this invasion. The invasion will end when Russia runs out of troops or equipment (or somebody helps Putin develop a terminal case of lead poisoning). Anything the US can do to facilitate that outcome is worthwhile.
I assume this post, predictably, is to demonstrate a source which used the word "surrender" referring to Azovstal combatants giving themselves up -- as if providing one example disproves that a great many news outlets use/used euphemistic phrases.
These feel-good substitutions say something about widespread (lack of) objectivity in news reporting - and in this thread.
No, the point is to demonstrate why Azovstal combatants holding out for some time was beneficial to the overall Ukrainian objective by depleting the resources of Russian troops that were tasked with capturing them.
Nobody should be "fine" with civilian casualties, least of all women and children amputees. It wrenches your stomach, as the article intends.
No one on this board is justifying kids having legs blown off - the post is a hatchet job.
Call it "whataboutism", but the horrible fact is this happens in large-scale armed conflict.
In the West Bank, Yemen, and in "Separatist" regions of the Ukraine.
The Ukraine side have and use artillery and missiles, too - some of which we gave them, with more on the way.
We ought to be avoiding wars. Not inciting and conducting them.
The United States has participated in over 100 wars. Quite a few civilians lost limbs in those. That this is oblivious or of no concern speaks to hypocritical bias.
Russia is the one perpetrating this conflict and thus bears responsibility for each and every one of these maimed children. Chilling. Disgusting. Indefensible.
I assume this post, predictably, is to demonstrate a source which used the word "surrender" referring to Azovstal combatants giving themselves up -- as if providing one example disproves that a great many news outlets use/used euphemistic phrases.
These feel-good substitutions say something about widespread (lack of) objectivity in news reporting - and in this thread.
No, the point is to demonstrate why Azovstal combatants holding out for some time was beneficial to the overall Ukrainian objective by depleting the resources of Russian troops that were tasked with capturing them.
The goal of this war is to keep the bloodshed going.
Nobody should be "fine" with civilian casualties, least of all women and children amputees. It wrenches your stomach, as the article intends.
No one on this board is justifying kids having legs blown off - the post is a hatchet job.
Call it "whataboutism", but the horrible fact is this happens in large-scale armed conflict.
In the West Bank, Yemen, and in "Separatist" regions of the Ukraine.
The Ukraine side have and use artillery and missiles, too - some of which we gave them, with more on the way.
We ought to be avoiding wars. Not inciting and conducting them.
The United States has participated in over 100 wars. Quite a few civilians lost limbs in those. That this is oblivious or of no concern speaks to hypocritical bias.
Thanks for the link. Never saw that one before. So from what I read the United has "lost", 9 out of 100 wars. Probably a better % of wins to losses than most nations on earth. Different people have different ideas just what exactly defeat is/means. We "lost" the Viet Nam and Afghanistan wars not because we got beat bloody and went home with our tail between our legs. Quite the contrary. While we were involved in those two wars we tried to help them build their own army.
But the men in those countries lacked a spine. And after we built them up and left them to their own devices, they both folded like a house of cards. We never lost a battle in those two wars. The problem was we tried to stand two nations up on their own two feet. If they collapsed after our withdrawal that has to be on them for lack of a spine. You can teach combat tactics, but you can't teach spine. Either you have one or you don't.
Now look at Ukraine. The only thing they want are NATO weapons. They are not asking for allied armies to come to their aid. These people have a spine that right now is the envy of the world.
No, the point is to demonstrate why Azovstal combatants holding out for some time was beneficial to the overall Ukrainian objective by depleting the resources of Russian troops that were tasked with capturing them.
The goal of this war is to keep the bloodshed going.
Is that why Russia hasn't withdrawn yet? Because they're blood-thirsty, ruthless monsters that want to keep the bloodshed going"?
Is that why Russia hasn't withdrawn yet? Because they're blood-thirsty, ruthless monsters that want to keep the bloodshed going"?
America is spending another $40 billion on weapons for Ukraine to keep the blood spilling.
The people who run America hate Russians and Ukrainians
No. America is NOT spending another $40 billion on weapons for Ukraine, but good try.
The package includes more than $20 billion for the Pentagon to provide weapons, intelligence and training, and nearly $14 billion for the State Department for food aid, refugee assistance and other diplomatic programs.
No, the point is to demonstrate why Azovstal combatants holding out for some time was beneficial to the overall Ukrainian objective by depleting the resources of Russian troops that were tasked with capturing them.
The goal of this war is to keep the bloodshed going.
The Ukrainians who are actually doing the fighting and dying agree that it is worth their own blood being shed to stop a greedy imperialist pig from achieving his goal of fascist annexation. Not that you in your Safe Space of Holier-Than-Thou judgement would care about the enslavement of 41 million people that just want to be allowed to live in a semblance of freedom and security. I have opposed every war the U.S. has been involved in, but when an authoritarian thug tries to rape a weaker victim, it is time for the rest of the world to step up and support the victim and put the perpetrator in his place.
But that might no be acceptable to a raging anti-semite blinded by racist ideology while hypocritically claiming to be"on the side of peace".
