If a president commits a crime he will be impeached.
After impeachment he is not longer in office and THEN the criminal prosecution occurs.
What if the president speeds while driving his horse drawn carriage? Especially after receiving a warning the day before? Should he be free of prosecution unless he is impeached?
For the Record, this question is based off a true story.
If a president commits a crime he will be impeached.
After impeachment he is not longer in office and THEN the criminal prosecution occurs.
This is Civics 101 and you people act like it hasn't been the process for centuries...
Nope.
Not even remotely the question you were fairly asked, based on your own post.
You said the Constitution says, "exactly" that the "President is immune from prosecution while in office."
I am asking for the Amendment that says "exactly" that. I don't really want to hear anything else from you. You wrote it. Back it up. Which Amendment says that?
Which Amendment says you can't have nuclear weapons?
Not having a word for word confirmation of what you want to see in the constitution isn't the slam dunk you seem to think it is.
What if the president speeds while driving his horse drawn carriage? Especially after receiving a warning the day before? Should he be free of prosecution unless he is impeached?
For the Record, this question is based off a true story.
President Ulysses S. Grant was even arrested, and paid $20 bail.
Should this not have been the case? Should congress have impeached him for speeding?
"The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."
If you could find people dumb enough to interpret Article 2 Section 4 to include traffic citations as a "high crime and misdemeanor" I suppose you could.
This post was edited 19 seconds after it was posted.
Not even remotely the question you were fairly asked, based on your own post.
You said the Constitution says, "exactly" that the "President is immune from prosecution while in office."
I am asking for the Amendment that says "exactly" that. I don't really want to hear anything else from you. You wrote it. Back it up. Which Amendment says that?
Which Amendment says you can't have nuclear weapons?
Not having a word for word confirmation of what you want to see in the constitution isn't the slam dunk you seem to think it is.
You know you just got caught out again, right?
You said the Constitution "exactly" says that the "President can't be prosecuted while in office."
What Amendment "exactly" says that (or anything even close, frankly)?
And yes, this exchange is exactly the slam dunk I know it is. You are the guy getting "posterized" by the dunk.
President Ulysses S. Grant was even arrested, and paid $20 bail.
Should this not have been the case? Should congress have impeached him for speeding?
"The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."
If you could find people dumb enough to interpret Article 2 Section 4 to include traffic citations as a "high crime and misdemeanor" I suppose you could.
So you agree? The president can be arrested/prosecuted for low level crimes and citations? Or is he immune as President?
Which Amendment says you can't have nuclear weapons?
Not having a word for word confirmation of what you want to see in the constitution isn't the slam dunk you seem to think it is.
You know you just got caught out again, right?
You said the Constitution "exactly" says that the "President can't be prosecuted while in office."
What Amendment "exactly" says that (or anything even close, frankly)?
And yes, this exchange is exactly the slam dunk I know it is. You are the guy getting "posterized" by the dunk.
Article 2 Section 4. "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."
The House presents the case for impeachment the Senate decides whether to convict or not.
You said the Constitution "exactly" says that the "President can't be prosecuted while in office."
What Amendment "exactly" says that (or anything even close, frankly)?
And yes, this exchange is exactly the slam dunk I know it is. You are the guy getting "posterized" by the dunk.
Article 2 Section 4. "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."
The House presents the case for impeachment the Senate decides whether to convict or not.
The criminal proceedings come AFTER this.
I will try to ask this in a clearer way.
Are you implying that at sitting president cannot be charged for crimes which are not " Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." I used the example of President Grant being arrested for speeding. Perhaps another example could be tresspassing (ok unlikely but still) or ownership of an illegal pet or failing to pay alimony, etc. Would a sitting president be immune from prosecution for these?
Article 2 Section 4. "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."
The House presents the case for impeachment the Senate decides whether to convict or not.
The criminal proceedings come AFTER this.
I will try to ask this in a clearer way.
Are you implying that at sitting president cannot be charged for crimes which are not " Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." I used the example of President Grant being arrested for speeding. Perhaps another example could be tresspassing (ok unlikely but still) or ownership of an illegal pet or failing to pay alimony, etc. Would a sitting president be immune from prosecution for these?
I'm saying a president wouldn't face a trial while in office. If the crime was deemed serious enough he would be impeached first.
Are you implying that at sitting president cannot be charged for crimes which are not " Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." I used the example of President Grant being arrested for speeding. Perhaps another example could be tresspassing (ok unlikely but still) or ownership of an illegal pet or failing to pay alimony, etc. Would a sitting president be immune from prosecution for these?
I'm saying a president wouldn't face a trial while in office. If the crime was deemed serious enough he would be impeached first.
So if the crime isn't serious enough, we have to wait until after they are out of office? They can get away without prosecution for almost 8 years for lower level things?
You said the Constitution "exactly" says that the "President can't be prosecuted while in office."
What Amendment "exactly" says that (or anything even close, frankly)?
And yes, this exchange is exactly the slam dunk I know it is. You are the guy getting "posterized" by the dunk.
Article 2 Section 4. "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."
The House presents the case for impeachment the Senate decides whether to convict or not.
The criminal proceedings come AFTER this.
So, in other words, you have nothing.
You are making a case, in your own words, that one thing (impeachment and removal) must come before the other (prosecution).
The Constitution says nothing about that, and certainly does not "exactly" say that the "President is immune from prosecution while in office."
A President absolutely could be prosecuted for a lesser crime without being impeached first. He might remain in office even after the prosecution. And a President who commits murder could be prosecuted if a friendly Senate refuses to remove him. No part of the Constitution says what you want it to say, or established a required order of events (removal before prosecution) that you claim.
I'm saying a president wouldn't face a trial while in office. If the crime was deemed serious enough he would be impeached first.
So if the crime isn't serious enough, we have to wait until after they are out of office? They can get away without prosecution for almost 8 years for lower level things?
Impeachment would happen much faster than any criminal trial ever would.
The examples of speeding and trespassing are irrelevant as they don't involve jail time. The issue is the crime resulting in the president being prevented from performing his duties as president. If the president was speeding he would pay the ticket. If was trespassing he would pay the fine.
I think there is a decent chance that the Supremes decided not to hear Trump's petition for certiorari on this ruling. There may be enough of them that think the DC Appeal decision is comprehensive and correct, and they already have the Colorado and the Fischer 18 USC 1512 cases to decide (and probably more stuff to come from the Bathroom case).
Article 2 Section 4. "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."
The House presents the case for impeachment the Senate decides whether to convict or not.
The criminal proceedings come AFTER this.
So, in other words, you have nothing.
You are making a case, in your own words, that one thing (impeachment and removal) must come before the other (prosecution).
The Constitution says nothing about that, and certainly does not "exactly" say that the "President is immune from prosecution while in office."
A President absolutely could be prosecuted for a lesser crime without being impeached first. He might remain in office even after the prosecution. And a President who commits murder could be prosecuted if a friendly Senate refuses to remove him. No part of the Constitution says what you want it to say, or established a required order of events (removal before prosecution) that you claim.
The Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel disagrees with you.
So if the crime isn't serious enough, we have to wait until after they are out of office? They can get away without prosecution for almost 8 years for lower level things?
Impeachment would happen much faster than any criminal trial ever would.
The examples of speeding and trespassing are irrelevant as they don't involve jail time. The issue is the crime resulting in the president being prevented from performing his duties as president. If the president was speeding he would pay the ticket. If was trespassing he would pay the fine.
You can go to jail for speeding if it is 26 MPH over the speed limit, or for reckless driving.
Again, this is a very unlikely scenerio, but if I am hearing you correctly, you are saying that unless a president was impeached by the house and convicted by the senate for this reckless driving, they would avoid prosecution until after the presidency?
Also where does it say in the constitution you cannot be the president if you are in jail? Joe Exotic is actually running a presidential run from jail right now.
You are making a case, in your own words, that one thing (impeachment and removal) must come before the other (prosecution).
The Constitution says nothing about that, and certainly does not "exactly" say that the "President is immune from prosecution while in office."
A President absolutely could be prosecuted for a lesser crime without being impeached first. He might remain in office even after the prosecution. And a President who commits murder could be prosecuted if a friendly Senate refuses to remove him. No part of the Constitution says what you want it to say, or established a required order of events (removal before prosecution) that you claim.
The Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel disagrees with you.
Precedent is not on your side.
The DoJ policy, which is well known, is not the Constitution.
You claimed the Constitution says "exactly" that the "President cannot be prosecuted while in office."
If a President murdered someone we would see how fast that policy goes out the window.
But I'll assume that by pointing at that policy you are admitting you are wrong about what the Constitution does and does not "exactly" say.
The Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel disagrees with you.
Precedent is not on your side.
The DoJ policy, which is well known, is not the Constitution.
You claimed the Constitution says "exactly" that the "President cannot be prosecuted while in office."
If a President murdered someone we would see how fast that policy goes out the window.
But I'll assume that by pointing at that policy you are admitting you are wrong about what the Constitution does and does not "exactly" say.
Just take your loss and move on.
They could have at least moved the goal posts by saying "This is a high crime/treason case, so the impeachment/conviction takes place first" but oh well.
Impeachment would happen much faster than any criminal trial ever would.
The examples of speeding and trespassing are irrelevant as they don't involve jail time. The issue is the crime resulting in the president being prevented from performing his duties as president. If the president was speeding he would pay the ticket. If was trespassing he would pay the fine.
You can go to jail for speeding if it is 26 MPH over the speed limit, or for reckless driving.
Again, this is a very unlikely scenerio, but if I am hearing you correctly, you are saying that unless a president was impeached by the house and convicted by the senate for this reckless driving, they would avoid prosecution until after the presidency?
Also where does it say in the constitution you cannot be the president if you are in jail? Joe Exotic is actually running a presidential run from jail right now.
So you actually believe Joe Biden would go to jail he if drove 26mph over the speed limit?
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