Demilitarizing is almost achieved, all Ukrainian military infrastructure is destroyed and AZOV is about to be done. Denazifying will be taken care of with imprisonment of captured AZOV fighters and a lot of nazi-related details will come to daylight once these fighters face criminal court. Ukraine will lose face in the next years, when the West will find out what "cool" things AZOV has been doing for years in East-Ukraine.
Yes, it would be great for it to be over as soon as possible. In no way do I see Ukraine winning here...
I don't predict winners or losers with respect to fighting. Russia already is a loser in other respects.
Again, you are redefining goals in a manner favorable to Russia. At the onset Russia claimed that Nazism pervaded Ukraine's entire political structure and thus Russia needed to dismantle the government, re-educate the populace and install non-Nazis. It wasn't just about AZOV. And if the fighting ends soon, do you really think NATO will leave Ukraine defenseless? The will provide equipment and training, which seem to counter the claim that Russia will have demilitarized Ukraine.
Yeah ok. You can either win or lose a war and Russia is definitely not losing here and Ukraine is definitely not winning, so you tell me.
Political structure can be toppled once captured AZOV fighters start speaking. You, know, "who gave orders", "who paid whom to do what", all that will come out to daylight soon. Zelensky will have to cut off his nazi-politicians like a gangrenous arm to save face in front of the EU. Would not look good if the West found out that his vice-ministers or such gave orders to AZOV to shell civilians and use them as live shields in East-Ukraine.
"Re-educate the populace"... Where did you get that and what is this supposed to mean?
Ukrainian men will finally go home and the last thing they will be thinking about is war and getting training from NATO. It will also take years for Ukraine to rebuild destroyed civilian infrastructure and who knows if they ever gonna rebuild completely destroyed military infrastructure. Or is NATO gonna be training Ukrainians in the cities or maybe forests?
There will be many years of peace after this and Zelensky already has abandoned his NATO ambitions. Another thing that will come is frustration of West-Ukrainian citizens, once they will realize they have been led on by NATO and their government to a loss...
And people in Donbas will be absolutely ok to be part of Russian territory, just like Crimeans are. A shame Ukrainian government tried by force to glue two pieces of Ukraine that don't belong together in the first place.
Who told you they sent a "full force attack"? Full force for Russia would be to use its 6.000 nuclear warheads. And even without nuclear power, they could wipe Ukraine off the face of the earth in a day and there would be nothing anyone could do to stop them either. But since Russia doesn't even consider this a war, just a mere "special military operation", the goals are to oust AZOV nazis out of Russian-speaking regions and get Ukraine to sign a non-NATO agreement. These goals are looking really good right now, as they just took almost a thousand AZOV fighters as prisoners and cleared "that" steel plant in Mariupol.
The end is near, my friends.
Do you really think Russia loses over 30,000 troops, 1200 tanks, 12 generals, 1500 planes/equipment, 7 ships. world wide hatred, having their army a laughing stock on the world stage over Ukraine becoming NATO and Nazi's.......really?
So ya get in your tanks and trucks and head on down the road, how damn stupid is that? Russia couldn't figue out that just won't work as they got totally annilated. How damn dumb is this army?
Captured Russian soldiers talking about fellow wounded soldiers being shot and killed by ths in charge rather than spend time on them......wow! What is wrong with these people?
The plan was to take Ukraine, after that failed it's now can they win anything, how sad is that?
World-wide hatred? You probably forgot that the world does not only consist from the West. Half of the world is absolutely ok with Russia. Also people will forget about this a lot sooner than you think. This fall covid will take the hot-seat of public attention once again.
I don't see anything to laugh about. Donbas and Crimea will be Russian territory, Ukraine will be NATO-free and AZOV is finished. That's a win in anyones book. Yes, there were significant military losses. So what. A reason to reform the army, not more.
Please do read a lot about this and educate yourself, because you don't seem to know much about this topic.
I'm in awe how the usual suspects in this thread predictably look past US Admirals being caught with AZOV, and the amazing treatment of women in the peaceful victim Ukraine.
Yeah ok. You can either win or lose a war and Russia is definitely not losing here and Ukraine is definitely not winning, so you tell me.
Political structure can be toppled once captured AZOV fighters start speaking. You, know, "who gave orders", "who paid whom to do what", all that will come out to daylight soon. Zelensky will have to cut off his nazi-politicians like a gangrenous arm to save face in front of the EU. Would not look good if the West found out that his vice-ministers or such gave orders to AZOV to shell civilians and use them as live shields in East-Ukraine.
"Re-educate the populace"... Where did you get that and what is this supposed to mean?
Ukrainian men will finally go home and the last thing they will be thinking about is war and getting training from NATO. It will also take years for Ukraine to rebuild destroyed civilian infrastructure and who knows if they ever gonna rebuild completely destroyed military infrastructure. Or is NATO gonna be training Ukrainians in the cities or maybe forests?
There will be many years of peace after this and Zelensky already has abandoned his NATO ambitions. Another thing that will come is frustration of West-Ukrainian citizens, once they will realize they have been led on by NATO and their government to a loss...
And people in Donbas will be absolutely ok to be part of Russian territory, just like Crimeans are. A shame Ukrainian government tried by force to glue two pieces of Ukraine that don't belong together in the first place.
Wow the cope is getting more and more breathlessly long-winded.
It's a general rule that the more you need to write to explain your position, the more hilariously wrong it is.
I'm in awe how the usual suspects in this thread predictably look past US Admirals being caught with AZOV, and the amazing treatment of women in the peaceful victim Ukraine.
But, facts mean nothing to 'liberal' fascists.
So, which country invaded the other? Attempted to conquer the capital? Bombarded civilians for months? Hmmm..... I guess we can't know!
Wow the cope is getting more and more breathlessly long-winded.
It's a general rule that the more you need to write to explain your position, the more hilariously wrong it is.
Good thing everything is so simple. How long did you go to school again, or were you taught everything in two sentences by your parents?
Want a short version? Russia won, Ukraine lost.
If the goal was to throw away thousands of pieces of equipment, tens of thousands of soldiers, destroy your economy, and end up in exactly the same place as before the war (for now, possibly could lose land still)... then, yes, Russia won.
You've been insisting Russia was winning for months, moving the goal posts each time. You have no credibility left. Just mountains of cope and hundreds of crying posts. You love to see it.
Do you really think Russia loses over 30,000 troops, 1200 tanks, 12 generals, 1500 planes/equipment, 7 ships. world wide hatred, having their army a laughing stock on the world stage over Ukraine becoming NATO and Nazi's.......really?
So ya get in your tanks and trucks and head on down the road, how damn stupid is that? Russia couldn't figue out that just won't work as they got totally annilated. How damn dumb is this army?
Captured Russian soldiers talking about fellow wounded soldiers being shot and killed by ths in charge rather than spend time on them......wow! What is wrong with these people?
The plan was to take Ukraine, after that failed it's now can they win anything, how sad is that?
World-wide hatred? You probably forgot that the world does not only consist from the West. Half of the world is absolutely ok with Russia. Also people will forget about this a lot sooner than you think. This fall covid will take the hot-seat of public attention once again.
I don't see anything to laugh about. Donbas and Crimea will be Russian territory, Ukraine will be NATO-free and AZOV is finished. That's a win in anyones book. Yes, there were significant military losses. So what. A reason to reform the army, not more.
Please do read a lot about this and educate yourself, because you don't seem to know much about this topic.
If you think the objective wasn't to unseat the Ukraine government and own all of Ukraine you know nothing about what is really going here. Dude, what you are seeing now is a beaten Putin, a beaten Russian army just trying to lick some scraps off the floor like the dogs they are. Ukraine won this and only a blind man or a complete fool wouldn't see that. And by the time this is over Russia will be the brunt of all jokes talking about that inability to fight. What a joke their Army has been, my God they suck.
Ukraine won this we all know it and if you had any common sense you'd see the reality here.
Russia Army calls partially taking over a steel plant from 200 injured Ukrainian volunteer soldiers, who were school teachers and bakers a few months ago, after weeks of trying a Huge victory. Ha ha. Pathetic!!
About 263 soldiers surrendered 16 May.
More followed the next day.
So far, more than 1000 Ukraine soldiers have given themselves up at the Azovstal plant, with more expected.
No figures are provided showing how many of these are recent conscripts or volunteers ("Teachers and Bakers").
Certainly many are regular members of the Ukraine Military, including the controversial Azov Battalion.
While this may seem a "pathetic" claim to victory, it does mark loss of a key sea port with a pre-War population of 400,000, total control of the Sea of Azov, establishing a broad land bridge between Crimea and Russia, and affects propaganda feeds from all sides.
Today, the Ukraine government is now refusing to comment any further on Mariupol surrenders.
Russia may have lost as much as one third of the ground force it committed when it invaded Ukraine, according to an intelligence assessment from Britain's de...
There's plenty of Russian incompetency to go around, but competent forces take losses, too.
Russian battlefield losses are better characterized as Nato victories than testimony to Ukraine pluck.
Much of the targeting of Russian assets is from Nato/US Intelligence, Satellite and Reconnaissance data, being fed in real-time and then struck with NATO supplied high-tech weaponry. This is a NATO/Russia proxy war, plain and simple.
Russia is taking significant losses. But the Ukraine side is, also. You won't see that plastered in Western news. An extended war of attrition does not favour Ukraine.
In the case of the sinking of the Moskva, the United States admits they alerted and provided targeting data to the Ukraine. Claims are it was struck with two Ukraine Neptune missiles - which is possible, even though Neptune batteries were thought mostly destroyed. But the sinking also follows just one day after Britain announced it was supplying Ukraine with anti-ship missiles.
So either Ukraine is dominating the Russian military... or Biden is. Take your pick, brother.
Fallacy of False Dilemma. There is most always more than two choices.
The point is conflict in the Ukraine is a NATO proxy war serving Western hegemony.
Russians and Ukrainians are dying in droves - with no end in sight.
All America has to do keep banging the drums of war - fresh rhetoric, provide intel, conduct black ops, write huge checks at tax-payer expense, cut more lucrative arms deals...
Yeah, Ukraine just lost Mariupol, things are going down and rather quickly from here. Over a thousand of Azov fighters are taken prisoners by Russia, that's more than half of what's left of the Azov battalion.
You 'liberals' are completely disgusting and dangerously stupid people
I am "liberal" in that I despise the ignorance of the woke mob running our country right now, who are attempting to remove all semblance of dissent while dismantling fundamental institutions that provide order amidst the chaos. FJB. I also spit on Putin's authoritarian grave for the crimes he has unleashed.
The time has come for those who respect true values of freedom and liberty to stand up to authoritarianism wherever it arises.
And while I feel that the policies of the Trump presidency were moderate and competent, especially compared to the current national nightmare under Brandon, the ignorant goons that reflexively give him unquestioningly approval are as dangerous as the leftist extremists in dividing and weakening our body politic. That you and others side with an obvious fascist like Putin is beyond disgusting.
Yes, I am "liberal", like Washington, Jefferson, Smith, Lincoln, JFK and MLK were all "liberal". All would be appalled at the low level of intellectual consideration and discourse promulgated by ideologue fools like yourself.
Fallacy of False Dilemma. There is most always more than two choices.
The point is conflict in the Ukraine is a NATO proxy war serving Western hegemony.
Russians and Ukrainians are dying in droves - with no end in sight.
All America has to do keep banging the drums of war - fresh rhetoric, provide intel, conduct black ops, write huge checks at tax-payer expense, cut more lucrative arms deals...
Same sh*t, different country.
Remind me, which country was murderously invaded by the other? Which country is bombing civilians daily? I wish we could figure out the answer!
I'm in awe how the usual suspects in this thread predictably look past US Admirals being caught with AZOV, and the amazing treatment of women in the peaceful victim Ukraine.
But, facts mean nothing to 'liberal' fascists.
"Fascist" seems to increasingly describe many countries these days as we steady-march to pervasive authoritative state control.
Animal Farm meets 1984.
While the US government has paused implementation of the new "Ministry of Truth" to figure out how to market it better, in the Ukraine, all forms of news and communication are strictly controlled and monitored in the name of "state security". Many newspapers, websites, TV stations, and other media have been shut down.
This will continue as extension of Martial Law was just announced.
This means the new "Iron Curtain" stayed dropped, where most men are forbidden from leaving the country, fracturing families as women and children flee without husbands and fathers.
The latest plan is to conscript one million more men to the front-lines. Your life isn't even your own.
But Martial Law also means extra-judicial arrests, imprisonment, and execution, often for nebulous reasons. Thought Police there have guns.
People are being regularly "disappeared" without process, evidence, or recourse. Did we forget that barely a month ago, Ukraine secret police executed one of their own negotiators on the street?
Western Volunteers arriving to fight for the Ukraine have been detained, had to buy or steal their own equipment and weapons, and later returned home after seeing war crimes, kleptocracy, and dangerous incompetence.
A dozen political parties have been outlawed, with members being jailed, charged with treason, or summarily executed - sometimes publicized as a warning to others.
Ukraine has gone from the most corrupt country in Europe to the most corrupt in the World.
That's my boy!!
Don't believe me? The Truth is out there... not that it matters.
Fallacy of False Dilemma. There is most always more than two choices.
The point is conflict in the Ukraine is a NATO proxy war serving Western hegemony.
Russians and Ukrainians are dying in droves - with no end in sight.
All America has to do keep banging the drums of war - fresh rhetoric, provide intel, conduct black ops, write huge checks at tax-payer expense, cut more lucrative arms deals...
Same sh*t, different country.
Remind me, which country was murderously invaded by the other? Which country is bombing civilians daily? I wish we could figure out the answer!
Can you start numbering your repetitive posts? They all tend to blur together.
What argument is being made here?
That Russians and Ukrainians aren't dying in droves with NATO and American fanning the flames?
That this sort of scenario hasn't played out in any number of a dozen countries in memory?
Remind me which country invaded its neighbor in the name of conquest?
One trick pony.
It does not follow that an aggressive act of invasion occurred without context, or that from that any amount or manner of wrong-doing is made right.
Right is right, wrong is wrong. When you start calling one the other, you've lost your way.
Correct. The Russian invasion is the ultimate Wrong here. Were they to simply go home, this would all be over. You spend far too much time handwringing over the horrors of war instead of focusing on the obvious resolution: the murderous aggressors give up and go home.
It's really that simple. No need to pretend it's more complicated.
Yeah, Ukraine just lost Mariupol, things are going down and rather quickly from here. Over a thousand of Azov fighters are taken prisoners by Russia, that's more than half of what's left of the Azov battalion.
Russian is now in the can they just get something, anything at all phase. This take over Ukraine is long gone now that won't happen so they have lost.
It's like trying to take over the USA and settling for Oregon and that's it.
Russia has lost this, and it wouldn't shock me to see somebody take Putin out.