Simple logic actually prevailed this time! Not so common nowadays
Simple logic actually prevailed this time! Not so common nowadays
Super-super-provisional order wrote:
Literally a single judge did this.
A single judge of the Swiss Federal Supreme Court overruled the temporary suspension of the IAAF regulations of teststerone levels in female athletes
How is that justice?
A single judge overrules everything that the President of the US tries to do.
SAD? As in "seriously awesome decision?"
YMMV wrote:
A tangent perhaps, but does anyone else get the feeling that Caster only trained a few times a week, about the level of a middle-schooler? Just seemed to coast along on a huge biochemical advantage.
With her coasting in races I am sure she was coasting in practices, working just hard enough to beat the other XYs, meanwhile the XXs where going crazy trying to keep up.
IDK..... wrote:
IDK (I don't know): On one hand, I'm sad for Caster, if she was born with too much testosterone to be a female, but not enough to be a male. It's not her fault, and that is really tough. The courts are telling her that she is 'too close' to being male, and so she cannot compete with females. This has got to be really rough.
.
The facts: Semenya is an XY male with pitiable external genitalia due to an accident of biology in the womb, a condition called 5-ARD.
Semenya is NOT an "unusual female."
Semenya is an "unfortunate male."
AGAIN, Semenya IS IN NO WAY A FEMALE. She is 100% male, with undeveloped genitals. FULL STOP.
The IAAF failed to get these simple facts to the media--the NYtimes and everyone else painted this as an unusual female with elevated testosterone. The IAAF should have been shouting from the rooftops since 2009 that Semenya is not an "unusual female" but an "unfortunate male." Why they did not take this path--if they knew she was XY 5-ARD-- I can not understand. It led to an unnecessary 10 year loss for true female athletes. This legal battle should have been done in 2010, not 2020.
AGAIN: Semenya is 100% male. She is NOT a female in any biological sense.
A poster a few months ago whose name I can not recall did a great job of researching and presenting her condition of 5-ARD.
The issue is clouded by the SEPARATE issue of MTF transgenders wanting to participate in women's' sport
This does NOT mean Semenya is to be ridiculed or mistreated in any way. She is to be pitied as a biological unfortunate and treated with nothing but compassion. She can compete with men, or follow the rules like any other MTF transgender wishing to compete as a woman.
team Unruly Bush wrote:
doot doot wrote:
Grifter par excellence making a mockery of athletics behind the auspice of social justice.
Maybe some people think social justice is more important than running in circles
Why does the pursuit of social justice have to distort, if not outright subvert, women’s professional sports to achieve its goals?
How is this not the tyranny of an extreme minority over half the world’s (potential) athletes?
team Unruly Bush wrote:
doot doot wrote:
Grifter par excellence making a mockery of athletics behind the auspice of social justice.
Maybe some people think social justice is more important than running in circles
Doesn’t your comparison basically prove that things are so good for these people (relatively speaking) that now elements of society have resorted to “fighting the good fight” in the arbitrary and ultimately meaningless arena of sports?
It is long past time to have transgender competitions in addition to those for athletes with various other physical differences, such as the blade runners.
Happy news wrote:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d4tSE2w53ts&feature=youtu.be
This about sums it up, but we've been here before.
So she moves to the 400
I haven't yet seen a copy of the ruling, and as far as I can tell, nobody on this thread has yet read it. Any link to the ruling?
I'm guessing that the ruling summarily states that the temporary stay on the CAS decision has been lifted, with a "reasoned decision" to follow shortly. I suspect that the supreme court's reasoned decision will merely explain why the stay is being lifted, applying the generally applicable standards in such matters, and does not resolve the merits of Semenya's appeal, which will remain ongoing. It's pretty safe to say that it's bad news for Semenya's chances in the appeal, since a reviewing court might very well keep the stay in place if a clear majority of the members are strongly disposed to reverse or vacate the CAS ruling, but this decision is probably far from dispositive of the appeal on the merits.
Charlesvdw wrote:
Semenya is an XY person with testosteron-producing testes and external female genitalia.
She is not not a woman. She is not a man. She is intersex.
It wouldn't be fair to let her compete in the women's 800m.
Thanks. Clearly said. Some others are ranting about liberals and PC. I am liberal and think this is the correct decision. I also think it’s PC to support women’s sport as clearly for women. There’s no easy answer to cases like hers, but there is an answer that women’s sport needs to be pure XX for fairness. Otherwise there is not women’s sport. Maybe that makes us feminists, but really I think it’s fair-ists.
The IAAF ended up with a peculiar rule in which DSD athletes are disallowed only from 400 through 1500m, which is absurd if you look at the performance lists for every track and field event, where there is a consistent 10+% gap between men and women. Here the Swiss court pronounces only that Semenya cannot compete in the 800m at World's while the appeal is underway. It does not pronounce judgment on the case. We just do not know anywhere near as much about Semenya's physiology as some here have said. What came out in 2009 was mere hearsay. The only thing we see is the obvious phenotype, performance, and what the IAAF let slip recently, that Semenya, Niyonsaba, and Wambui are 46 XY DSD cases. That slip, however, is quite telling in indicating that the default is not to let them run in women's races simply because they were raised as girls, but rather to let them run in men's races because they are chromosomally male, if not fully developed as such. No international sports federation can allow mere gender choice to be the determinant of gender as long as there will be a category of women's events; nor can they let athletes of unlimited testosterone, whether natural or artificial into women's events, not even if the athletes had that high testosterone in the developing years but not currently. It simply means that in the presence of such cases, women by nature will lose most women's events.
Super-super-provisional order wrote:
Literally a single judge did this.
A single judge of the Swiss Federal Supreme Court overruled the temporary suspension of the IAAF regulations of teststerone levels in female athletes
How is that justice?
That's the role of judges - to make rulings. A judge is given the power to make an individual ruling, in many cultures. The US Supreme Court is different -- being a body of judges who render decisions as a group.
Every single judge has detractors who do not agree with decisions. Naturally, some judges are corrupt or politically skewed, with a need to be reelected to keep their positions. Some are truly wise, caring determiners of issues, irregardless of political or social pressures.
Eaglemariah wrote:
So she moves to the 400
This post got me thinking, where does she go from here? Going from 16:05 in April for 5000 and 24.36 in February for a 200, to 15:20 or 23.03 by September 6, would be nothing short of an absolute miracle. Unless she plans on boycotting the WC in protest, I can’t see her not giving one of those two a try, with the 5000 being a more likely attempt.
Eaglemariah wrote:
So she moves to the 400
And the 400 hurdles. Those hurdles are absurdly low for a 5' 10" person.
Charlesvdw wrote:
Semenya is an XY person with testosteron-producing testes and external female genitalia.
She is not not a woman. She is not a man. She is intersex.
It wouldn't be fair to let her compete in the women's 800m.
No womb no ovaries ...how is that a woman in anyway, shape or form ..? CS is a dude.
VoR wrote:
Super-super-provisional order wrote:
Literally a single judge did this.
How is that justice?
What is the exact number of judges it would take to make it just?
Perhaps he wants 12 random people voting on sympathy
zxcvzcvx wrote:
The IAAF ended up with a peculiar rule in which DSD athletes are disallowed only from 400 through 1500m, which is absurd if you look at the performance lists for every track and field event, where there is a consistent 10+% gap between men and women. Here the Swiss court pronounces only that Semenya cannot compete in the 800m at World's while the appeal is underway. It does not pronounce judgment on the case. We just do not know anywhere near as much about Semenya's physiology as some here have said. What came out in 2009 was mere hearsay. The only thing we see is the obvious phenotype, performance, and what the IAAF let slip recently, that Semenya, Niyonsaba, and Wambui are 46 XY DSD cases. That slip, however, is quite telling in indicating that the default is not to let them run in women's races simply because they were raised as girls, but rather to let them run in men's races because they are chromosomally male, if not fully developed as such. No international sports federation can allow mere gender choice to be the determinant of gender as long as there will be a category of women's events; nor can they let athletes of unlimited testosterone, whether natural or artificial into women's events, not even if the athletes had that high testosterone in the developing years but not currently. It simply means that in the presence of such cases, women by nature will lose most women's events.
+ 1000...He is a man
OP headline is wrong way around: the World Champs will miss Caster