Sad News: Frank Meza Found Dead In LA River

tartarm wrote:

Brushman wrote:

Bingo! Well stated!

This guy created his own circumstances by choosing to live a dishonest life. How he decided to end it is not our problem or responsibility.

So you both condone relentless online harassment until someone kills them selves. That’s a disgusting tact to take.

You know nothing about Frank other than what that cretin Derek wanted you to know. You know nothing about his life.

I can't believe people are criticizing the guy that exposed the lying cheater rather than the lying cheater himself. No, scratch that. I totally can believe it. Because so many people don't care about ethics or honestly or morals. Those of us who train hard and race honestly should just step aside and shut up when cheaters use a bike or whatever to finish ahead of us.

How, exactly, did Derek engage in "online harassment"? Derek did nothing more than report the facts. You cannot point to a single thing that Derek misreported. He is meticulous and fair and there is nothing he has written that remotely resembles harassment. In fact, by falsely accusing him of online harassment, you are committing both libel and online harassment.

colorunner123 wrote:

Do you really think a serial cheater and liar should be coaching high school cross country? I don't.

I would agree with this. Obviously, it is truly tragic that Meza seemingly decided to end his own life (a lot of details aren't known to the public yet). As someone who posted a few times during the early part of that thread, I think it is misguided to point blame at the LRC on that thread, and especially towards Derek for his Marathon Investigation articles. It's clear the man was a serial cheater in marathons. Whatever the root reason was for his cheating, it's clear to be he would be a bad choice as a coach and trying to say those calling for his removal are "vile" are retrofitting the situation based on what just happened. Just because he reached a very tragic choice doesn't mean others are to blame more than he is for his own actions. Cyberbullying is a very real and disgusting thing, but I followed most of this from the beginning and I don't see this as the same. A young teen taking his/her own life after relentless bullying that causes the teen to question his/her own self-worth is terrible and the teen would bear no responsibility. But this isn't quite the same, and trying to say retroactively say this man shouldn't have been held accountable for his own decisions made over the course of a decade is unwarranted.

spade detector wrote:

I don’t think it alone is disqualifying, and I KNOW it is sub-human to harass his employers to urge them to act on it.

With what I said above, I was trying to differentiate between the calls for his removal from coaching and his employment status. If his employer or the boards he sat on decided to act on the public reporting, that would have been their prerogative. But I thought proactively "pestering" them to encourage them to act was not appropriate and unnecessary, so I would agree on that front.

First of all, shame on you Mr. Derek Murphy and the running community! Your coverage on Dr. Meza was harassing and a form of bullying. It was also a form of discrimination on the basis of race. I hope that the family finds you liable.

I am a long-distance runner myself but I would never want to belong to a running community that would have Mr. Murphy as a member.

I am so devastated by Dr. Meza’s recent passing. I am even more devastated that Mr. Murphy and the running community are still having conversations about him.

For the record, Dr. Meza did great work in his lifetime! He did great work in his job! He did great work with his wife and kids! He was a pillar of the community. He will be truly missed. God bless you Dr. Meza!

colorunner123 wrote:

How, exactly, did Derek engage in "online harassment"? Derek did nothing more than report the facts. You cannot point to a single thing that Derek misreported.

Derek reported on the publicly and legally available facts of an official registrant in a public sporting event. On someone who claimed a world record*. And the vast majority of that information was dug up by others, which Derek acknowledged. Yet Derek was threatened and intimidated.

Yes, some people on the thread went too far. Someone accused Frank of being a pedophile. Others speculated that Frank was a criminal and a horrible person in every other aspect of his life. Those people are scum. But that's not Derek's fault, nor letsrun's fault, nor the internet's fault.

*yes, we all know it was unofficial.

rojo wrote:

dunes runner wrote:

Thank you for that, Malmo. I never even looked at it. Such threads are disgusting.

While I didn't read the anywhere close to the whole thread as I only paid attention to it for a few days days maybe 2 weeks ago, I don't agree that threads trying to expose fraud in the fastest marathon performance ever run by a human at a certain age are inherently "disgusting."

Malmo wrote me and wanted the thread deleted and I wrote back asking him why it should be deleted. When I was reading it, it appeared that many people were still uncovering new evidence of improprieties by Dr Meza in a variety of races.

There's a fine line for sure and while we do not know all the details yet, you have to wonder if the two are connected.

Essentially, these people who find cheats are vigilantes and just like anyone who gains a small amount of power, they want more. I do think we should absolutely expose cheaters and race directors in events over 1,000 people need protect the integrity of their event better. That being said, it cannot be personal attacks and we don't need to know their address, kid names, favorite color, etc. just stick to the issue at hand.

I don't have a solution but I'm also not running a forum on the internet and therefore not liable for the people who post here.

(I'm a very, very longtime lurker but felt compelled to register and post this)

First, my condolences to Frank's family, friends, and people who knew him. I hope their memories are positive and warm of a man, who despite what may have been discussed here, did seem to try and give back a lot to the community.

The idea that Derek or MI have any responsibility or are the problem here is insane. From the beginning I've followed Derek and his methodology and he is sterile, objective, and sticks to the facts. Nothing more, nothing less. Frank's accomplishments were broadcast to a national audience through many forums. A comprehensive and factual rebuttal should be broadcast through the same forum. This wasn't someone cheating at a 40 person turkey trot and having it on GMA and Inside Edition, this was someone claiming a world record in an age group for one of the most prestigious distances.

Reading through 280+ pages in the other thread, though, shows that not everyone has the same restraint as others. I wish Inside Edition hadn't knocked on his door.

I hope in the future Derek/MI and serious LRC sleuths continue their work to provide objective investigation whether it's a 5K or trans-continental run, but we should be more diligent about leaving speculation, threats, and innuendo beyond that out of the discussion. It only hurts the investigation and makes everyone involved look like bullies instead of athletes of every level coming together for truth.

Once the records are removed, I hope Frank Meza is remembered for the positive in the lives he touched, not this.

I couldn't agree more. Derek did nothing wrong. Deadesq did nothing wrong. "Maybe this" did nothing wrong. These gentleman presented factual evidence. They are not responsible for Frank's actions. I read every post in every Frank thread and followed the stoty very closely from the beginning. When people got out of line, the larger crowd condemned them and urged them to stop. The only examples I can think of are writing reviews on his doctor page, contacting his employer, and stiring up conspiracy theories about the high school with no evidence. Those above examples were condemned fairly quickly. The vast majority of the thread was factual evidence and a push for DQs. There is nothing wrong with seeking media exposure to force the DQs.

As you stated so we'll better than I can, Frank's actions this entire course we're his and his alone. He had plenty of opportunity to admit guilt, apologize, and move on. It is so sad that his family and friends could not assist him with that.

To blame the internet is misguided anger.

To be clear, I don’t think exposing cheaters is wrong and I don’t think Derek or anyone else is responsible for Frank’s actions. I do, however, think that Frank’s death should remind us that we are talking about real people and that we should keep in mind that finding the line between exposing someone and trying to impact every area of that person’s life beczaue of their cheating.

I do feel for his family and the kids that he impacted. I also believe he cheated. Those things don’t have to be mutually exclusive.

His wife has reacted to the news to The Daily Beast and has some nice comments about Frank here:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/frank-meza-marathoner-accused-of-cheating-found-dead-in-los-angeles-river

Smoove wrote:

To be clear, I don’t think exposing cheaters is wrong and I don’t think Derek or anyone else is responsible for Frank’s actions. I do, however, think that Frank’s death should remind us that we are talking about real people and that we should keep in mind that finding the line between exposing someone and trying to impact every area of that person’s life beczaue of their cheating.

I do feel for his family and the kids that he impacted. I also believe he cheated. Those things don’t have to be mutually exclusive.

Well said. I agree, I just have trouble conveying my thoughts.

From the Daily Beast:

"(his wife Tina) said that on Thursday morning, Meza told her he was going out for a run. “I said, ‘It will be good for you,’ and he said, ‘I‘ll see you later,’” she said.

At around 10 a.m., according to KABC, rescue workers found Meza in the river. “That’s all we know,” she said."

Truly sorry for his wife and family.

The media stories took the slant of humiliating Frank.

But exposing the truth by Derek and Letsrun collaborative was absolutely the correct approach.

I wonder how the Phoenix marathon will proceed; it's now very sensitive and tough to issue a DQ.

As long as we are playing the Blame Game now....

Lets recall that there was plenty of evidence weeks ago for the LA Marathon to DQ Frank and ban him for life. Ditto for the Sprouts Marathon. If Frank had apologized or the Race Directors had acted quickly, this would not have spiraled out of control. And then maybe, just maybe, he'd still be alive.

LetsRun.com wrote:

His wife has reacted to the news to The Daily Beast and has some nice comments about Frank here:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/frank-meza-marathoner-accused-of-cheating-found-dead-in-los-angeles-river

From the article:

Meza’s wife said his longtime running partners stood by him as he dealt with the public humiliation.

“They were all manufactured lies,” she said of the headline-making accusations. “And he couldn’t figure out why people were willing to listen to this.”

“We don’t understand why he was attacked,” she added. “He was just a soft-spoken, nice person. It hurt him deeply. I still don’t understand it.”

We know he died. He reportedly told his wife he was going out for a run. How do we know he didn't accidentally fall? How do we know he didn't just have a heart attack? Maybe he decided to start training hard for the first time in years, if not decades, in preparation for possibly accepting some of the challenges that have been presented his way? Not that he would have had a chance, but maybe he wanted to see for himself if he still had some of the speed he apparently had back in his youth? He seemed like a man who had some fight in him, so steadfast in his public denials that he was cheating despite overwhelming evidence. Yes, a suicide is highly plausible given what's transpired and the massive stress that he caused for himself, but let's remind ourselves that there's actually very little official, verified information available so far.

This is some next level bullcrap. I am outrage an online mob potentially forced a man to take his own life...over what. A little hobby???

Seriously? You want to claim some moral high ground because the reality of accepting responsibility is too much to bear.

Catching cheaters and profiting off their mistakes are two very different things.

As of today, derek has left the stories up. Think about that. Getting traffic is more important than respecting the Dr’s family.

You and Derek were never about “catching cheaters”. You were always about getting the internet lynch mob for these personal transgressions.

Derek had no reason to publicly shame Menz. He could’ve gotten him dqed without making a public spectacle. That’s never bern Derek MO.

None.

He is responsible.

These "Investigation Threads" bring out the best and worst of the posters to LetsRun. On one hand the dedication of people to analyse data, uncover anomalies, present reasoned scenarios and ask intelligent questions is very impressive. On the other hand the witch hunt mentality, guilty until proven innocent, go for the jugular and blatant trolling is disgusting. On the Meza thread there was about one post per page that had value, the rest either added nothing new or were just offensive. Other "Investigation Threads" have had the same problem, whether it be Litton, Rossi, Young etc. A huge number of posts, most of which add no value and some of which could be labeled as bullying.

Yet these threads have tremendous value. Cheating should be investigated and where the alleged cheat stands to gain financially or in status then all the more so. But these types of threads need to be more professional, otherwise we may lose them altogether. If LetsRun was hit with a lawsuit alleging cyber bullying then we may never catch another Litton, Rossi, Young, and yes, Meza.

I would suggest the following policy for these "Investigation Threads"

1) Once a thread gains traction as an "Investigation Thread" label it as such and restrict posting to registered posters only.

2) Aggressively moderate it to ensure that the posts published have true value. I.e. data analysis, reasoned scenarios, interesting observations, intelligent questions etc. Delete all the fluff posts and the witch hunt posts ~90%

3) Delete any post that calls for punishment other than the DQ of the race in question.

4) Delete any post that calls for emailing the main stream media. Instead LetsRun should generate a media package that they can release if asked for it.

5) Rely on Marathon Investigation being the primary portal for releasing the results of the investigation to the general public.

Finally, it would be really good if someone were to go back over the Litton, Rossi, Young etc. threads and clean them up. They would be really interesting reading if condensed to about 10% of their current size.

All you losers who defend Derek and LR know the answer to this question

Would Dr. Meza be alive today if not for the internet mob? You know the answer.

Deep down you know the truth. That’s all that need to be said.

tartarm wrote:

So you both condone relentless online harassment until someone kills them selves. That’s a disgusting tact to take.

You know nothing about Frank other than what that cretin Derek wanted you to know. You know nothing about his life.

colorunner123 wrote:

From the article:

Meza’s wife said his longtime running partners stood by him as he dealt with the public humiliation. “They were all manufactured lies,” she said of the headline-making accusations. “And he couldn’t figure out why people were willing to listen to this.” “We don’t understand why he was attacked,” she added. “He was just a soft-spoken, nice person. It hurt him deeply. I still don’t understand it.”

I am very sorry to Frank's wife especially, his family and friends, and would have stood by him too.

I didn't know Frank, didn't follow any of this, and am even more disgusted now with how much the LRC witch hunt spread through the media, plus the many people who took part and yet still take no responsibility for their actions.