Yes, we really need a 400/800 group! I'm not the head coach, so it's not my call. I coach jumps and vault during track but am the cross country coach, so I am pretty interested in what goes on with the distance crew.
Yes, we really need a 400/800 group! I'm not the head coach, so it's not my call. I coach jumps and vault during track but am the cross country coach, so I am pretty interested in what goes on with the distance crew.
Stay on him, but also praise and encourage him at times. I think he will eventually do really well for your team.
Update. We were at a meet last night and we had a team in the 4x4. It was kind of unusual early season meet in that kids had to qualify to get in to it by running in one of their county meets 2 weeks ago. We had a miler also qualify for that meet as an alternate, but he chose not to come and instead stayed home to do a workout. It became obvious that we wouldn't be able to put that team in later in the evening due to a few injuries. The meet hadn't started yet and I told the kid who is the subject of this thread that he could try and go check in for the race as his teammate and see if he gets in as an alternate. He got in with absolutely the slowest PR in the field.
Race went out at 66 up front and my kid was tucked in at the back at 69. He and another kid got shelled off the back kind of early in the second lap, but my guy pulled away from that kid, running 75 for the second lap. Another kid kind of died on the 3rd lap and my guy caught him, running a 78. On the last lap, there were a few more kids coming back that had gone out too hard and my guy kicked by them to finish in 4:54 (which was one second faster than the kid from our team who had qualified as an alternate).
He still hasn't really done any "distance" training this season, but I think he is starting to find some confidence. I think this was a pretty good step for him.
After his 52 second relay split on his third race of the day this past Wednesday, I feel like he has the talent to run under 2:00 this season for the 800. He is still skeptical of the 800. In his only attempt at the event last year he ran a 2:22 because he pretty much went out too slow, got dropped, and gave up. I feel like right now he could go out in 57 then hang on for an ugly 2:05 if the conditions were right. We have a dual meet against a league rival next Wednesday. That team has 2 guys at the 2:06-2:07 range for the season. That could be a good opportunity for him to gain a little confidence and experience.
Our small school in the Midwest had 9 guys run 54 seconds. Two were freshmen. 54 is like a 5 minute mile.
CoachB wrote:
I've got a sophomore kid who has never run track before. He came out for the team after playing soccer in the winter. When he first came out, he wanted to run with the distance group.
After one day, the distance coach told me, "this kid looks like a legit sprinter". So taught him a relay handoff and put him on the 3rd leg of a 4x1, where he proceeded to bring our team from back of the pack up to first in our season opening invite. We won our heat and were second overall in that meet. The next week, we moved him to anchor on the varsity 4x1, where he ran down a few guys at another medium size invitational.
He told me that he still wanted to run with the distance group so he could get in shape for next soccer season. He runs on his heels like a noob distance kid, but he is really fast.
At another meet, we tried him in an 800, as an experiment. It didn't go too well, he ended up in 2:22 ish. He's run an open 400 in 57 ish and a couple of relay splits in 55.
We've had him doing sprint mechanics work with the sprint group to try and get a more efficient, powerful stride on him, but he's been still going off and doing the bulk of his workouts with the MD group.
Yesterday was our first day of spring break. Our distance and MD kids worked out with the distance coach in the morning and I had the sprint group in the afternoon. The kid in went to the distance workout in the morning and did 2 x 600 @ 1:55 avg then 4 x 300 @ 49-51. Then he showed up in the afternoon for the sprinter workout as well. I didn't really want him to run, because he had already gone in the morning, but he assured me he felt good.
The sprint group workout was surprisingly similar to the MD workout for the day (2 x 500 @ 80% 400 speed + 2 x 300 @ 90% 400 speed). I told the kid to just run relaxed with the back end of the group (kids that run around 59-60 for the 400). Here were his times for the workout.
500 @ 91 ran with the group. 3 min rest
500 @ 83 decided group was too slow for him about 100m into rep. 6 min rest
300 @ 47 - 6 min rest
300 @ 46
All reps were on a section of our cross country course (we are in the process of having a new track built, so we are homeless for the season) and he was in trainers for both workouts.
The kid never looked pressed and he was never even really winded at the end of any reps. I'm thinking this guy should just be able to go out and pop a 52-53 for the open 400 and also easily go sub 2:10 in the 800, eventually going low 2:00 range for the season. We don't have an open 100 time for him yet, but he's been killing the 4 x 1 each time he gets the stick.
What am I missing here?
There is no eyeball test in track. It’s a quantitative sport. Every single thing you need to know about a runner is contained in his times.
How the heck is someone supposed to look fast and run slow? The premise is beyond stupid.
CoachB wrote:
Update. We were at a meet last night and we had a team in the 4x4. It was kind of unusual early season meet in that kids had to qualify to get in to it by running in one of their county meets 2 weeks ago. We had a miler also qualify for that meet as an alternate, but he chose not to come and instead stayed home to do a workout. It became obvious that we wouldn't be able to put that team in later in the evening due to a few injuries. The meet hadn't started yet and I told the kid who is the subject of this thread that he could try and go check in for the race as his teammate and see if he gets in as an alternate. He got in with absolutely the slowest PR in the field.
Race went out at 66 up front and my kid was tucked in at the back at 69. He and another kid got shelled off the back kind of early in the second lap, but my guy pulled away from that kid, running 75 for the second lap. Another kid kind of died on the 3rd lap and my guy caught him, running a 78. On the last lap, there were a few more kids coming back that had gone out too hard and my guy kicked by them to finish in 4:54 (which was one second faster than the kid from our team who had qualified as an alternate).
He still hasn't really done any "distance" training this season, but I think he is starting to find some confidence. I think this was a pretty good step for him.
After his 52 second relay split on his third race of the day this past Wednesday, I feel like he has the talent to run under 2:00 this season for the 800. He is still skeptical of the 800. In his only attempt at the event last year he ran a 2:22 because he pretty much went out too slow, got dropped, and gave up. I feel like right now he could go out in 57 then hang on for an ugly 2:05 if the conditions were right. We have a dual meet against a league rival next Wednesday. That team has 2 guys at the 2:06-2:07 range for the season. That could be a good opportunity for him to gain a little confidence and experience.
This kid has 3200 runner written all over him. He would do well with any decent coach. I feel bad for him that he is stuck with an idiot like you.
Well, I coach pole vault and horizontal jumps in the spring. I coach cross in the fall.
So, there’s that.
He clearly has talent, but it's up to him how much he wants to pursue and how hard he's willing to work. This guy is a junior, correct? I think if he fully dedicated himself to xc/track he could be finishing the year out as a sub 52/2:00/4:35 type athlete.
Unfortunately, I've seen some really talented athletes over the years miss out on running for numerous reasons. Lack of desire, constant injuries, and so forth.
Can you imagine my frustration, seeing a guy come into freshmen XC and running around 18:15ish for the 5K, only to get injured later in the season? Then, when he can finally start running again during middle of track season, he finishes the season and ges a decent summer base in, runs an opener around a 16:45~ 5k the next year, and then gets injured YET AGAIN (but a much different injury)? That was probably one of the most talented distance runners I have ever seen, although he was prone to consistent injury. He came back that track season and ended up running around 4:35 for the 1600. Junior-Senior year were both washes. Plagued by different injuries. Hip problem. Stress fracture, etc. We tried to analyze his problems (running form, flat footed or not, making sure he ran on soft terrain, etc.). Think German Fernandez type guy. Talented, but injury prone.
There's also that talented, but lazy athlete that comes along once in a blue moon. Had a guy run 5:15 / 2:20ish in middle school, with no cross country background. Never could dedicate himself to running and would show up once in a while. Completely disappeared by his junior year. Such a shame. He ran a 4:45 as a freshman and from there dropped off the grid slowly.
a year later and wrote:
CoachB wrote:
Update. We were at a meet last night and we had a team in the 4x4. It was kind of unusual early season meet in that kids had to qualify to get in to it by running in one of their county meets 2 weeks ago. We had a miler also qualify for that meet as an alternate, but he chose not to come and instead stayed home to do a workout. It became obvious that we wouldn't be able to put that team in later in the evening due to a few injuries. The meet hadn't started yet and I told the kid who is the subject of this thread that he could try and go check in for the race as his teammate and see if he gets in as an alternate. He got in with absolutely the slowest PR in the field.
Race went out at 66 up front and my kid was tucked in at the back at 69. He and another kid got shelled off the back kind of early in the second lap, but my guy pulled away from that kid, running 75 for the second lap. Another kid kind of died on the 3rd lap and my guy caught him, running a 78. On the last lap, there were a few more kids coming back that had gone out too hard and my guy kicked by them to finish in 4:54 (which was one second faster than the kid from our team who had qualified as an alternate).
He still hasn't really done any "distance" training this season, but I think he is starting to find some confidence. I think this was a pretty good step for him.
After his 52 second relay split on his third race of the day this past Wednesday, I feel like he has the talent to run under 2:00 this season for the 800. He is still skeptical of the 800. In his only attempt at the event last year he ran a 2:22 because he pretty much went out too slow, got dropped, and gave up. I feel like right now he could go out in 57 then hang on for an ugly 2:05 if the conditions were right. We have a dual meet against a league rival next Wednesday. That team has 2 guys at the 2:06-2:07 range for the season. That could be a good opportunity for him to gain a little confidence and experience.
This kid has 3200 runner written all over him. He would do well with any decent coach. I feel bad for him that he is stuck with an idiot like you.
Last night at a league dual meet: 2:03, kicked around 2 guys on the finishing straight for the win. Relay split of 51.8 later in the meet.
Way to believe in your kid, coachB! Glad to see he’s starting to deliver on his potential. Tell him to keep up the good work.
"It is a common fault for athletes and coaches not to appreciate the significant and permanence of basic speed. It leads youngsters to waste their time and sour their enthusiasm running at distances at which they will not realise their true and full potential. A boy could crack away with little success for years at the half-mile when he could perhaps be a top-class three-miler." - Arthur Lydiard
Unless your guy can run at least 23 in the 200 then he is most likely a distance guy. Our best 3200 meter guy ran 1:55 in the 800, yet he ran only the 5K and 10K in college because he wasn't fast enough.
well actually wrote:
"It is a common fault for athletes and coaches not to appreciate the significant and permanence of basic speed. It leads youngsters to waste their time and sour their enthusiasm running at distances at which they will not realise their true and full potential. A boy could crack away with little success for years at the half-mile when he could perhaps be a top-class three-miler." - Arthur Lydiard
Unless your guy can run at least 23 in the 200 then he is most likely a distance guy. Our best 3200 meter guy ran 1:55 in the 800, yet he ran only the 5K and 10K in college because he wasn't fast enough.
Love how the mantra many, many distance coach types is...."move 'em up!"
I had a kid a few years ago who did cross and ran the 800 in track. I kept trying to get more miles on his legs and he kept falling apart. He ran a 1:56 for me in high school.
When he got to college, the coach had him run less volume and more intense sessions with more easy days between intense sessions. He went 1:52 as a freshman and 1:50 as a sophomore (then he quit to get married).
So, yeah....I could try to put a bunch of miles on his legs during cross, but he really doesn't have much experience at his current volume.....and I'm not even his event coach this season in track. I started this thread because last year all of the coaches on our staff were kind of befuddled by this kid. Right now, I think we can just be happy that he finally figured out that he can be successful if he just runs with some confidence.
Ugghhh, this kid is wearing me out.....I guess I keep updating on him because I believe he can eventually be really good.
He is slated to run the 1600/800 at our dual against a league rival tomorrow. On paper the meet is going to be really close and there is no way he scores in the 1600.
However, he could WIN the 400, but without him in there, we get a 3rd at best in that event. I showed him the seed times today and asked if he'd like to switch to the 400 to help us win the meet and keep us in the hunt for a league title. I asked him during the school day. Then when I saw him again at practice, he says "I really just want to run the mile".
Our policy is to always give kids the final say on which event they do, but this is just so over the top frustrating.....I don't know if he has personality conflicts with the kids on the sprint crew or what, but man, he had the chance to be the hero and help our team win the meet....
CoachB wrote:
Ugghhh, this kid is wearing me out.....I guess I keep updating on him because I believe he can eventually be really good.
He is slated to run the 1600/800 at our dual against a league rival tomorrow. On paper the meet is going to be really close and there is no way he scores in the 1600.
However, he could WIN the 400, but without him in there, we get a 3rd at best in that event. I showed him the seed times today and asked if he'd like to switch to the 400 to help us win the meet and keep us in the hunt for a league title. I asked him during the school day. Then when I saw him again at practice, he says "I really just want to run the mile".
Our policy is to always give kids the final say on which event they do, but this is just so over the top frustrating.....I don't know if he has personality conflicts with the kids on the sprint crew or what, but man, he had the chance to be the hero and help our team win the meet....
Did you ask why?
There were about 30 other kids around. I didn't want to get into it with him at the time.
4:47 for 1600 last night.
Head coach has taken him off of 4x4 due to attitude issues, despite him having our fastest split.
So much talent, so little emotional maturity. Frustrating
What the wrote:
Comrade of War wrote:
ended up being a 48 and 22flat guy in college.
That is slow for a college kid so I'm not sure what your point is.
Welcome to letstroll, where anyone whose PR in the 400m is 48 seconds is SLOW.
CoachB wrote:
Well, I coach pole vault and horizontal jumps in the spring. I coach cross in the fall.
So, there’s that.
Same here. It is painful for me to watch the distance workouts in the spring if I dont agree with them.
CoachB wrote:
I've got a sophomore kid who has never run track before. He came out for the team after playing soccer in the winter.
When he first came out, he wanted to run with the distance group.
[After I harassed him], He told me that he still wanted to run with the distance group
We've had him doing sprint mechanics work with the sprint group to try and get a more efficient,
powerful stride on him, but he's been still going off and doing the bulk of his workouts with the MD group.
What am I missing here?
Good grief. Seriously???
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CoachB wrote:
Ugghhh, this kid is wearing me out
He is slated to run the 1600/800 at our dual against a league rival tomorrow.
[I] asked if he'd like to switch to the 400. He says "I really just want to run the mile".
this is just so over the top frustrating.....
I don't know if he has personality conflicts with the kids on the sprint crew or what,
CoachB wrote:
4:47 for 1600 last night.
Head coach has taken him off of 4x4 due to attitude issues, despite him having our fastest split.
So much talent, so little emotional maturity. Frustrating
He's doing great, and you trash him. You need to improve your attitude and grow up.
Let him run whatever he wants. He does have great talent in all areas, it seems. Don't push to him run events he doesn't want to run.
The only thing you and the other coaches should be doing is sitting him down and talking to him about really taking running seriously, and that he could make a great impact on his future by training hard and doing good work over the summer and all. Get him to run cross country, get him to practice over breaks, get him to be serious (but don't push him so hard he gets an injury / stress fracture).
He could maybe even grab a scholarship with the amount he's been improving by the time he is a senior. He's the type of guy I could see running sub 49 / 1:56 / 4:25 (and that's being conservative). The fact you are writing about him so much tells me he's one of those guys that possesses that much talent and can see him doing really great. I've seen that type around, several times.
You said he was slated to run the 1600/800, but then you said he ran the 1600 (and he ran a PR), but was taken off the 4x400 for attitude problems? Why did he have an attitude? Because you guys were going to make him run the 4x400 instead of the 800? Well, maybe you guys should let him run the events he wants to do...
Don't make the sport not fun for him.