Katelen Tuohy smashes VCP record

Just wow... wrote:

I don't know if the course is close to the same as in the early '80s, but plenty of guys who were around or just under 13:00 were also sub 9:20 3200 guys.

That's a little generous to say that they would be sub 9:20. Probably more 9:30ish for those right at 13:00. I'm sure there are exceptions to that but, for the most part, I don't think those guys were running sub 9:20.

Based on what Tuohy's done recently on the track and her 13:20 she probably can crack 9:50 right now for 2 mi.

I'm looking at results from 1982 Manhattan Invite, with the below notable runners (these are just guys I knew about):

Chris Nippert 12:59. He was like a 9:05 guy

Paul Marabito 12:50. Also way under 9:20

Rich Hubbard, 13:02. Also sub 9:20 guy (7th in NJ state meet that year)

Brad Hudson, 13:01 as sophomore, sub 9:20 guy (2nd in NJ state meet that yr)

Joe D'Acosta 13:03 Also sub 9:20 guy

Andy Martin 13:18 as sophomore, sub 9:20 guy (4th in NJ state meet that year)

Chris Mason 13:21 9:20 guy

Gavin Sloan 13:06 sub 9:20 guy

Tom Albright 13:15 ditto

John Logsdon 13:32 also 9:20 guy

Bill Barrett CBA, 13:19

Steve Schadler 12:58 (1983)

Heck, only 9 guys even broke 13:00 out of all 7 boys varsity races at the Manhattan Invitational that year!

13 flat and 13:22 are not the same thing.

However, I think the girl's 2 mile record is 9:48.

Tuohy's performance is quite impressive indeed.

Agreed, but the point is, she's not that far off the elite boys' times, and her performance, if the course is what it was back then, suggests she good for better than 9:48 for the deuce. I'd think more like a good shot at going under 9:40.

The list of women in the NCAA that could beat her at 4-6K is exceedingly small.

Like a deer v. a human in a speed battle. Mike Tyson v. a human. Chuck Norris v. China. Sculpin v. Bud Light. Such is Katelyn Tuohy v. the world at large.

Jorge Curioso wrote:

The list of women in the NCAA that could beat her at 4-6K is exceedingly small.

Less than 3 (perhaps zero), I would say.

I know Vanny very well. 13:21 is an excellent time even for guys. However, translating that time to a 2 mike on the track is difficult. I’ve seen guys run around 13:20 on Vanny that could barely break 10min in the 2 mile. I ran 13:40 low on Vanny and ran 9:44 for 3200m but I was a much better track runner. I’d say she’s in 9:50 shape for 3200m right now.

The hills on Vanny are very steep which can throw a lot of track oriented runners off. However, this time should predict great things for her. Also, I agree her physical development from last year is significant. Hopefully it plays to her favor.

I couldn’t follow your post because you didn’t say Vanny enough times.

I am sure I will get accused of being East Coast biased.

But I think this is one of the greatest XC mark ever run by either gender all time.

13:21 for a female runner is insane.

To shatter the existing mark by over 30 seconds on a time tested venue over decades with some really really good runners on that list is nuts.

To put it in perspective, this probably looks like a 16:43-16:50 at Holmdel, which is simply absurd for any female.And a solid mark for any guys good team's 4-5 runner.

say you're Tuohy's coach. You know the stories of so many many girls who peak at age 15-16 and then fade away. What do you do with this one? Do you encourage her to go out and see what she can do at this time? Hard workouts, etc?

Or do you encourage patience and build up her strength and fitness, making her more durable for college and beyond?

I'm sure it depends on the kid. I can see both arguments. Always good to push an adolescent to see what she can do in anything. And even a plan of patience can fail.

But having a long term plan is also a life lesson.

Honestly not sure what I would do.

But regardless, always great to see a 15 year old having great success.

Touche. Here we go again!

I think that decision has already been made, and horse out of the barn, so to speak.

You do not run 13:21 at Vanny without some very hard and specific training.

This career has been set in motion already.

A friend of mine said to me:

Better to have had A career, than none at all.

The reality is, I am not sure where there is to go, I mean she would be a factor at NCAA's right now as a HS soph, that is almost inarguable.

It's not like she is an XC specialist. 4:24 as an 8th grader and 2:12/4:18 9th grade (just outside the top ten all-time, all grades). This is why I say that 9:00 for 3000 is in the cards here.

Jdjdjdjdj wrote:

I know Vanny very well. 13:21 is an excellent time even for guys. However, translating that time to a 2 mike on the track is difficult. I’ve seen guys run around 13:20 on Vanny that could barely break 10min in the 2 mile. I ran 13:40 low on Vanny and ran 9:44 for 3200m but I was a much better track runner. I’d say she’s in 9:50 shape for 3200m right now.

The hills on Vanny are very steep which can throw a lot of track oriented runners off. However, this time should predict great things for her. Also, I agree her physical development from last year is significant. Hopefully it plays to her favor.

agip wrote:

say you're Tuohy's coach.

Or do you encourage patience and build up her strength and fitness, making her more durable for college and beyond?

She has a good coach. I'm sure they'll keep doing exactly the same program.

No question about it wrote:

agip wrote:

say you're Tuohy's coach.

Or do you encourage patience and build up her strength and fitness, making her more durable for college and beyond?

She has a good coach. I'm sure they'll keep doing exactly the same program.

well maybe. Or the coach says 'holy cow that was way faster than I thought...we need to back off - she's going to peak in October'

Big difference ~ wrote:

However, I think the girl's 2 mile record is 9:48.

Tuohy's performance is quite impressive indeed.

Didn't Mary Cain run in the 9:30s?

9:38.68iThe next fastest converted to full 2 miles is 9:51 by Brie Oakley. Mortensen ran 9:48 in the '90s for 3200, converts to 9:52.

WTFBBQ wrote:

Big difference ~ wrote:

However, I think the girl's 2 mile record is 9:48.

Tuohy's performance is quite impressive indeed.

Didn't Mary Cain run in the 9:30s?