Bump, there is another post popping up, and it would be good to get all the discussion in one single thread.
Bump, there is another post popping up, and it would be good to get all the discussion in one single thread.
Clerk wrote:
Bump, there is another post popping up, and it would be good to get all the discussion in one single thread.
Yes, let's just have one big concentrated pity party thread all in one place where we can go on pretending that the reason white guys lose all the time is because of drugs and not because they are slow as treacle and lazy and shiftless.
If they have a way of getting EPO out of the system, or being undetectable, so do U.S. runners.
wow, why isn't Kenyan banned like Russia? and maybe some European countries?
Arrests are good wrote:
Clerk wrote:Replying to this post from another thread, just to keep everything in one place
There are details. The two named doctors have been arrested, and currently being investigated (along with the Rosas, who are still in custody).
.
Good point. No details in the doc but good news that the doctors have been doped and hopefully the British athlete has been reported to the correct people.
The 'Coach' of the Olympic Gold Medalist part was worthless without his ID. He could have been absolutely anything and he gave no concrete information only speculation.
The bits with Freddy (I know him - basically anyone white who has been to Iten knows him!) were worthless in real terms - it just showed that you can buy EPO in Eldoret which is nothing new or even a big deal. They used Freddy to buy that stuff because he hangs out with all the Brits in Iten (and by hangs out I mean won't leave alone - he's a pain in the arse constantly begging for shoes/T Shirts.
I doubt Freddy knew the doctor - he doesn't know anyone, and he's not a professional pacer he's a professional annoyance who tags along for every run he can in the hope he might get a free lunch out of it!
Far more likely that Seppelt found the doctor then staged the introduction from Freddy.
Why Freddy? Because he is 'associated' to so many foreign runners (and will do anything for a few shillings)
Very devious but rather clever journalism.
I have a hard time believing that Seppelts motives are to clean up the sport rather than to make a name for himself but if this leads to some of the dodgy doctors being arrested then that is a fantastic step forward!
So you know Freddy? LOL. He's pest who hustles for freebies (track suits, shoes, drinks) from foreign runners. Not a "professional" pacer like they're trying make him out to be. But good tv if you're going the sensationalistic route. Also it turns out one of the "doctors" (Joseph Mwangi?) is actually what we in Kenya call a "herbalist", not isn't considered a real doctor here (no medical school required) and in many cases, really not that much more than glorified witch doctors. If this is so, it would be as hilarious as it is serious.
Kenturkey Derby wrote:
A notable quote from the video
"the athletes who come from nowhere are all doped"
No surprise here..
That was actually one of the least notable quotes as it came from a blurred out anonymous face.
Well done that man wrote:
Clerk wrote:One federation organized doping as part of a government program. The other federation failed to control doping. Two different actions, with different interentions necessary to correct them. Kenya has followed WADA's guidlines to stay eligible, Russia has not.
And before some says "but what about..." yes, other countries also fail to control doping, but not as a symptom of egregious errors or poor management, like Kenya: corruption, lack of testing, lack of NADO, lack of credentialed WADA lab, breadth of doping positives. US for example has lots of doping (and you know I beleive that firmly) but that doping is not emerging out of fundamental failures in anti-doping protocol, like the case with Kenya.
This is also all true - good posts this evening from Clerk.
Its a hard one with the Kenyan government as they are corrupt as hell anyway and spend their money on all manor of nonsense. So even if they were not corrupt and spent their funds wisely then would wise spending be to spend it on anti doping labs instead of clean water for example (not that they will do either!)
WADA just need to do it themselves and get it sorted. Plenty of well equipped hospitals in Eldoret - rent some space in one and conduct the analysis of doping tests for there. Pay for some full testers for Kenya only. A small expenditure to sort the problem out.
The problem of testing that is not of using - maybe one solves the other, or maybe one shows that the other was never a big problem, or maybe one shows that the other was a big problem and you start catching the cheats! Until the testing is up to scratch we will never know but you can hardly rely on an African government to get it sorted!
Agree, excellent posts from Clerk.
It's quite evident that the sheer volume of international runners who descend upon Iten every year has fed a growing cottage industry revolving around them in this very poor village (and nearby Eldoret). Be it half descent accommodation where none existed a few years ago, or a fruit and vegetable stand suddenly stocking sports drinks hanging right next to the plantains and, apparently, even the vitamins and PEDs they're used to from back home ... Iten is no longer the pure, unspoiled running Mecca it used to be. Some Kenyans have even ditched it for less crowded locations but as is often the case, they still get followed.
You make a good point about the Kenyan government being way in over their heads with regards to corruption, misplaced priorities and lack of resources. The irony is Kenya is home to more international agencies and NGOs than any other country in Africa, the IAAF and WADA could easily borrow from their models of setting up field offices in remote areas of the Rift Valley (fully staffed by internationals if necessary) and a lab in Eldoret directly under their control. The budget couldn't be much more than it costs to sustain a few dinosaurs at their HQ in Monaco.
If anyone needs help setting up said field offices, I have experience from above mentioned organisations 😜😀🙄
Metric Miler wrote:
Clerk wrote:Jess Andrews. PRed by 80 seconds to win British 10,000m trials and secure Rio spot. Fiancee of cyclist Dan Martin.
My thread about this lady got deleted.
She PB'd by another 20 seconds the other day in the European champs. Came 7th, over 25 seconds behind the winner and two places behind Jo Pavey who is 42.
Real doper indeed. Kinda just shows she is at a low level in an incredibly uncompetitive event, don't it.
I don't think one can claim anyone is doping based on a pb and big improvement.
And in the clip I saw in the news, didn't the 'doctor' say something like, ' 3 Brits, I THINK".
Clerk wrote:
Right. That second face of incompetence and burying the truth last showed as recently as several days ago:
http://www.sportsintegrityinitiative.com/analysis-ukad-admits-failings-in-dan-stevens-case/
I read somewhere yesterday that there will be an announcement on the Bonar case later this month.
I'm trying to recall the last time an elite British athlete tested positive for PED's. How did we get so many golds at London 2012, and yet we seem to be the cleanest country out there? Doesn't stack up.
I only know one British athlete who trains in Iten. Can anyone name some of the others?
Thedirty wrote:
Why is Russia banned and not Kenya?!? This is a disgrace to the sport. Renato Canova is an absolute fraud BTW
Kenya didn't invade Ukraine.
Agree with you about Canova. That the BroJos continue to employ him is disappointing.
El Keniano wrote:
Arrests are good wrote:Good point. No details in the doc but good news that the doctors have been doped and hopefully the British athlete has been reported to the correct people.
The 'Coach' of the Olympic Gold Medalist part was worthless without his ID. He could have been absolutely anything and he gave no concrete information only speculation.
The bits with Freddy (I know him - basically anyone white who has been to Iten knows him!) were worthless in real terms - it just showed that you can buy EPO in Eldoret which is nothing new or even a big deal. They used Freddy to buy that stuff because he hangs out with all the Brits in Iten (and by hangs out I mean won't leave alone - he's a pain in the arse constantly begging for shoes/T Shirts.
I doubt Freddy knew the doctor - he doesn't know anyone, and he's not a professional pacer he's a professional annoyance who tags along for every run he can in the hope he might get a free lunch out of it!
Far more likely that Seppelt found the doctor then staged the introduction from Freddy.
Why Freddy? Because he is 'associated' to so many foreign runners (and will do anything for a few shillings)
Very devious but rather clever journalism.
I have a hard time believing that Seppelts motives are to clean up the sport rather than to make a name for himself but if this leads to some of the dodgy doctors being arrested then that is a fantastic step forward!
So you know Freddy? LOL. He's pest who hustles for freebies (track suits, shoes, drinks) from foreign runners. Not a "professional" pacer like they're trying make him out to be. But good tv if you're going the sensationalistic route. Also it turns out one of the "doctors" (Joseph Mwangi?) is actually what we in Kenya call a "herbalist", not isn't considered a real doctor here (no medical school required) and in many cases, really not that much more than glorified witch doctors. If this is so, it would be as hilarious as it is serious.
Haha yeah, he's certainly not a professional pacer - it's hard to pace people when you are running miles behind them. He's a very weak runner.
Is this the fourth "documentary" that Seppelt has done in Kenya?
It seems to me all he has shown is that if he poses as a rich European manager, he can find doctors and chemists willing to take his money, by telling him what he wants to hear.
This documentary adds a new element -- that local "doctors" are doping Brits, where did you say, at a European training camp in Iten?
After the first documentary, Seppelt mentioned that he interviewed Kisorio -- why hasn't he told us the source of Kisorio's doping?
For an investigative journalist of his visibility, and alleged caliber, I would expect more than a showing that a rich European could dope an athlete in Kenya, if he wanted to.
I still don't get any sense that Seppelt has penetrated any inner circle of elite Kenyan doping. Maybe that will finally come out after a few more seasons of documentaries. It's like waiting each week to find out who killed Laura Palmer.
It would be interesting to hear from UK athletic's Head of Endurance about his views on Iden. He picked it as the UK's altitude training base, calling it "as good as it gets".
What makes this place "as good as it gets"?
Did the UK management team who spent weeks in Iten ever have any suspicions about PED usage among non-British athletes also training there?
Did they ever see used pharmaceutical containers or syringes?
Also, it is known that they employed a doctor and two physios for the training camps. Was the doctor a local doctor? If so, what was his name?
Paula was there in 2012,did she see anything suspicious?
Wasn't it around this time she had the suspicious blood values investigated?
rekrunner wrote:
I still don't get any sense that Seppelt has penetrated any inner circle of elite Kenyan doping.
Is that cause there isn't any elite Kenyan doping?
Or there is but it doesn't work?
Or there is doping in Kenya but only involving evil foreigners?
Sorry, I forget which excuse goes with which apologist.
trollism wrote:
rekrunner wrote:I still don't get any sense that Seppelt has penetrated any inner circle of elite Kenyan doping.
Is that cause there isn't any elite Kenyan doping?
Or there is but it doesn't work?
Or there is doping in Kenya but only involving evil foreigners?
Sorry, I forget which excuse goes with which apologist.
Not necessarily any of those.
Hajo's speculation is showing nothing so far.
If it exists he is giving himself every opportunity to find it and so far he's coming up short.
Just because you don't choose to accept Hajo's baseless speculation doesn't mean you are saying there is no problem.
UKAD seems to struggle with athletics.
Here are some facts.
Of the 60 individuals currently serving UKAD bans for doping-related offences, only 2 (two) are athletes.
Of the 119 historical sanctions, just 8 are for athletes who have failed drugs tests.
So, on average, just one athlete a year fails a UKAD drugs test.
Doesn't look great when JADCO, overseeing far fewer athletes and historically criticised for turning a blind eye, can sanction nearly as many athletes in a single year (2013) as UKAD has in its entire existence.
good find---very cool to see this section.
El Keniano,
Help me understand . If all this alleged (empty vials and used syringes) are found in the training camp , or proximity, of so many prominent Kenyan and European (presumably Rio Bound) athletes, How in the world is Kenya still compliant with WADA. Just because an Anti-Doping law is amended, is NO proof that it is being enforced
As I understand it , most elite athletes are tested multiple , un-announced, out of competition, times every year. Without equal, verifiable results from Kenyan, Rio bound athletes , why in heavens name can KenyaAD be claiming to be compliant?
AKMarmoset wrote:
Thedirty wrote:Why is Russia banned and not Kenya?!? This is a disgrace to the sport. Renato Canova is an absolute fraud BTW
I think that's not wholly unfair. But are they really worse than the US? AK blew it in terms of the letter of the law, but we the US are blowing it in the spirit of the law with our long line of doped up sprinters, who seem to be protected by our own federation.
Which U.S. sprinter(s) is being protected by USATF and/or USADA? Tell me which sprinter in the U.S. is doping and perhaps we can start discussing that athlete. Truthfully, I can't think of a single U.S. sprinter that is running so phenomenally that it can only be achieved by doping.
Hopefully you do know that all of the high profile U.S. sprinters who have been busted were caught by our federations. Which is unlike Russia, Kenya and Jamaica for example where their athletes have been busted at international competitions or by other means. The U.S. has about a dozen world class sprinters in their teens, notwithstanding the one-offs dopers here and there, we obviously don't need any systematic doping program to produce great sprinter...unless you think these teenages are doping.
...is there some millennial internet culture that perhaps I don't understand where you can just make a statement because you simply felt like doing it irrespective of whether it is true or not?