So many DNF's at OT

pro or "pro" wrote:

Could you please explain how this approach (e.g. planned DNF) shows honor and honesty toward the competition and your fellow competitors? To me it seems like it is more about fulfilling ones egotistical and self-promoting desires (just like doping). If you were too weak to compete why not admit it, say "I made a mistake or I just suck at this", and do it again in 4 years? Ah...its not the American way, is it?

Did you really just compare runners DNFing to doping? DNFing in no one way affects the integrity the race unless you take the pace out for someone else when you know you are dropping out.

Its a big deal to qualify to for trials and many want to make an appearance even if they're not at 100%. You can't just defer your entry for 4 years from now and there's no guarantee you'll make it the next time around.

OldManRunner wrote:

I count 61 DNF's for the men and 49 for the women. I know it was hot and all..but it's the freaking OLYMPIC TRIALS!!! Really?! It only comes once every 4 years and you put in all that work to qualify, and you're going to DNF? I only wish I was good enough to qualify. They would have to drag my tail off on a stretcher before I dropped out. I can maybe understand for some of the top guys that might have a shot at making the team in track, but for everybody else? What the heck are they saving themselves for? I would be interested to know how many of the DNF's got in with a half time and were doing their first marathon.

OP these aren't hobby joggers who care about finishing. They all know they could go out and run a marathon any day of the week. If you can't get a quality performance on a given day it makes more sense to save it for another day.

To people suggesting that the DNF's should be embarrassed by having the black mark of not finishing the trials on the their resume. I don't think they'll care if they end up having a good performance in a marathon this spring. If they killed themselves to finish this one it would make a spring marathon tough.

[quote]S. Canaday wrote:

I didn't qualify for this trials..

But I ran the Marathon in Trials in '12 and '07. I've been there.

It's not about "just finishing."

I respect all those that DNF)))))))and at this

Olympic Trials with the heat, and all the turns on the course it is no surprise that there was a higher rate of DNFs.

Sage your post always are great to read, and you have my respect. But to respect someone who DNF's for anything other than passing out is bullshit. My times are no were near yours but I guarantee we both hurt the same while racing the marathon. To just quit is to easy, I ran Boston the year of the heat 07 ?? and even with all the people walking up HB hill I kept running /jogging.

It was the OMT at least jog to the finish.

I enjoyed your book, thanks for posting.

The Hobby Jogger

These guys don't care about finisher medals.

Sage made a great post.

Well maybe since you're no where near Sage's level you don't understand what goes into their reasoning for deciding to DNF when they could finish and aren't qualified to comment.

As someone who is at Sage's level I completely agree with him. I will also say an individual does not gain respect just because they finish when things are going bad. Some times dropping out s the smart decision. These guys have worked their butts off to get to this level and if you think it doesn't hurt them to have to DNF you're naive but in many cases its the right thing for them.

Buddy, you should have been there and seen these guys try to keep going. The guys I saw were done. DONE. They had nothing left in them and could barely move. This was not a lack of will. You can't will yourself to crawl through the next 10k if you are barely able to hold it together for a 400. You won't understand unless you were right there watching athletes double up in pain. I've seen plenty of people die hard and jog it in, but never anything like this. I only have admiration and respect for these guys.

The integrity of a race depends on whether or not the participants prepare AND compete with integrity. Doping compromises the former. Intentionally dropping out (and only seeking attention for yourself), the latter. Both stem of an overestimated self worth and/or jealousy toward others.

Agree with "Boston".

My .02 on what went wrong in terms of dropouts

1. Anytime you have an incredibly warm day you will have a higher % of dropouts in a marathon

2. NBC wanted to air the race live in "primetime" so it demanded a 10AM start. If the race would have started at 7:30AM, then aired at 10AM as a tape, that would of been safer for the athletes as the temps would have been 15-20 degrees cooler.

3. A loop course that runs by the finish line every 5-6 miles lends itself to more dropouts.

4. The honor for the 2:18 marathoner is "qualifying" not finishing. These guys finish a marathon virtually every weekend. Why kill yourself just to finish in 2:31 when you can walk off at 14 or 20 miles and lessen the chance of injury, allow your self to virtually recover in less than 2 weeks and then be ready to enter another race (10K, 21K etc.) within a month and pick up 1,000.00 or so?

It would mean everything to me and 99% of the people on this board to qualify/finish the OT - that's because we are average

I ran a my 10th marathon about 8 years ago. My goal was to go under 2:50 as I was in what I thought about 2:48 shape. My father came out to watch as he is a sports fan but did not know much about running. I dropped out at mile 13 as it was not my day and I would have been lucky to run 2:59 that day. He was disappointed I "quit" in his words. I tried to explain to him that no question I did the right thing as I have run several marathons in the 2:50's and shuffling in at 2:59 meant nothing to me and why put my body through that when I can drop out at 13 and fight another day - much sooner

I am very confident stating the highest % of dropouts in any marathon are the top runners

ancient marathoner wrote:

I know quite a few guys who ran the last OTs. Most of them were 2:18-2:21 guys. None of them were "pros" who expected to earn a living from running. A couple of them ran to PR at the trials, but most of them decided to go with the lead pack for as long as they could hang on and see what happened. They knew they were highly likely to blow up about half way, but they wanted to be in the mix as long as possible. That approach on a day like yesterday will cause a lot of DNFs.

Well then they made stupid plans, and are especially deserving to be criticized.

I was at the race wrote:

Buddy, you should have been there and seen these guys try to keep going. The guys I saw were done. DONE. They had nothing left in them and could barely move. This was not a lack of will. You can't will yourself to crawl through the next 10k if you are barely able to hold it together for a 400. You won't understand unless you were right there watching athletes double up in pain. I've seen plenty of people die hard and jog it in, but never anything like this. I only have admiration and respect for these guys.

Point taken. Wish I could have been there to see first hand how bad it was.

I can see both sides to this. To me it all boils down to the circumstances. A few thoughts...

1. I see no problem with the idea of a planned DNF. If a runner earned the right to run in the trials by hitting a standard, then doggone it they can line up with the rest if they'd like. Injuries are a part of running and it's not exactly the runner's fault if they're unlucky enough to get one leading up to the trials. Someone said "just wait till the next one..." Right... Who knows what could happen in 4 years. Might not qualify, might be injured again, might be too late in a career. FOUR YEARS can be a big chunk of a runner's career - unless maybe you're Meb.

2. If you feel a bit of a biomechanical problem starting to bother you early in the race it would be stupid to keep going (especially assuming you've got no shot at the team). That kind of thing can magnify to a big issue within the next 5, 10, or 20 miles that can put your training back weeks, months or even more. Is finishing a race really worth that much of a setback?

3. On the other hand, if you just decide you're feeling tired, or have predetermined in your mind that it's just too hot out then I think it's stupid to DNF. It's pretty unlikely that it's going to destroy you if you run smart and stay hydrated.

4. Everybody needs to clip hopes in their singlets like Rupp. Can't they tell that's why he won?

Nothing to do with the medal Star its all about looking in the mirror the next morning.

Not naive at all, if I've trained 16 weeks to race a marathon I ain't dropping out just to save face.

And just because I ain't running as fast as you guy's dont mean I ain't giving 100%. I have raced and bonked and still at least jogged in to the finish and not for the medal.

We were out on the course out and were running up and down Figueroa and our first thought was why is there not more water and ice? We even saw some guys and gals that were clearly suffering but wanted to finish and thought that in a regular marathon they would be getting water, bananas, gels, ice etc. every 2 miles and it would make it a lot easier to recover a bit and finish in at least a little better shape. Start time sucked for the athletes as well.

wineturtle wrote:

Who was the water sponsor?

Letter writing- well e-mailing in this era- is called for.

Complain to the sponsor that being niggardly and parsimonious with their water donation put Americas best athletes in a high risk situation. Let them spank the USATFOfficials.

USATF could not care less about the fans thoughts or opinions. And we all know they do not give a flying fig about athletes health in any meaningful way, shape or form.

Water sponsor was not the issue. I heard there were cases of whatever leftover after the meet.

The LOC dropped the ball. They promised the coaches and athletes something and did not deliver. USATF dropped the ball too, they should have been making sure the LOC followed through.

Isn't shit like this why the LDR committee chose Houston over LA? My understanding is they thought Houston would treat the athletes better. If Max is going to make a business decision to choose LA because it positions USATF better and brings in more money for the sport, then USATF gets a share of the blame when that LOC fails the athletes.

From what I saw on the course, I think the DNFs to some degree came from racers who went out aggressively to try to get a good finish and got in over their head. I HATE DNFs, but it's the OTs and if your strategy is to race for a strong time, as opposed to your highest potential place, then you're probably going out hard and risking DNF. I was recording early splits for some of the guys I know personally compared to the front pack, and in most cases they were out a lot closer to the lead than I expected through 7-10 miles.

I don't think it was a case of a DNF to save themselves for another day, I think it was truly a case of pushing beyond what they were capable in hopes of a special day. And when it went bad they weren't thinking of pulling a Barnicle, they just stepped off. Having the staging area come around every 6 miles made that easier logistically.

By the way, the 2 guys I was watching for, both qualified with marathon times not half times.

Yes you are naive. Myself and other qualifiers dedicated years of our lives to get to the level required to make the trials. At this level a DNF does not mean you're a quitter. Finishing a marathon is not hard almost anyone can do it if they really want to and I can do it any day of the week if I feel like it. Most guys at my level aren't going to sacrifice future performances or risk injury to finish if things aren't going right.

OldManRunner wrote:

I was at the race wrote:

Buddy, you should have been there and seen these guys try to keep going. The guys I saw were done. DONE. They had nothing left in them and could barely move. This was not a lack of will. You can't will yourself to crawl through the next 10k if you are barely able to hold it together for a 400. You won't understand unless you were right there watching athletes double up in pain. I've seen plenty of people die hard and jog it in, but never anything like this. I only have admiration and respect for these guys.

Point taken. Wish I could have been there to see first hand how bad it was.

Whoa OP slow that roll. This is Letsrun, you're supposed hold fast to your opinion and never give an inch. You're not supposed to acknowledge that anyone who presents a differing opinion may have a point or even be correct even when presented with persuasive argument or facts.

Good to hear that Hobbyjoggers aren't the only ones who complain about not enough water on marathon courses.

PVP,

USATF does not care what fans or athletes say. Complaining that they did not do their jobs falls on deaf (and dumb) ears. By interacting with the water sponsor we engage a voice the USATF will listen to.

Of course I know the guilt falls on the LOC but to have an impact the complaints must come from someone the USATF wants to curry favor with.

The sponsor will say "We gave you plenty of water why was it not on the course. Now potential customers are upset. Instead of getting a boon for our sponsor ship of your event we get a black-eye, we are not pleased".

To the sponsor every bottle on the course is an advertisement.