No one is to blame? Really?
I think Rachel is to blame. How can you not know the requirements of participating in the OTQs? It's not the Race's responsibility to make sure the potential qualifier knows the rules.
I'm tired of runners blaming USATF or the RDs because they failed to read the instructions or failed to follow protocol,
I feel bad for her, but this is a life lesson she should learn from.
FYI, event insurance is widely available.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=running+insurance+u.s
.
No one *needs* to go to USATF for it and the marathon organizers know this and kept at least $11,500 they would have spent at USATF. That's real money. What about the other costs of USATF compliance?
IT ACTUALLY COSTS MORE THAN $10,000 to have your event be a trials qualifier.
C'mon Rojo, think before posting. If this is the norm for an ivy league eduction, then thank god I didn't waste my time getting one.
I thought the race advertised it as eligible for earning an OTQ?
Not true.
Sanctioned race - just a few hundred dollars
Certification -
D.Katz wrote:
As mentioned, races have the option to get a Sanction without the insurance for a fraction of the cost - often, just a few hundred dollars.
But what I see as being more important is that competitive runners need to be proactive. You are independent contractors that need to know the rules and requirements for qualifying for events and for record ratification.
It is unfortunate but too many athletes have lost records and qualifying spots in events due to their lack of knowledge.
Become a student of your event....all aspects.
This is a fair point. It reminds me of Emma Coburn not being credited with the AR in the 3000SC because she didn't know to get drug tested afterwards. I'm a big fan of Emma and the whole situation sucked, but the rule really does exist for a valid reason.
In this case, it would be nice to know if the USATF requirements were made clear and the lack of sanctioning by the marathon was made clear. It would also be nice to know why the Michigan USATF association charges $4950 to sanction a race and what you are getting for that, because it seems like they are just gouging races with the result that races are not going to get sanctioned if they get nothing of value from the Michigan association.
Having said that, however, I hope they can figure out a way to let this woman run.
D.Katz, double check the sanction fee for the Michigan USATF. I think is $4,950 without insurance, not "a couple hundred". I think the Freep should pay, but the national USATF should look into the excessive fee being charged by the Michigan USATF.
Mi USATF / The Freep Marathon - it's all just a microcosm of how f-ed up this area is. The previous race directors and staff could have addressed this previously to ensure the course is certified and sanctioned. I'd doubt the past or current sponsors are picking up the liability coverage. period. The city surely isn't, nor is the county. Neither has a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of.
Several years ago there were three heart attacks during the half, two which were fatal. I wonder if the first responders were on the course, or if they had to wait for the City EMS to show up, if they did at all.
A real shame of what the marathon has become.
How do I know - I've run it several times from 1993 through 2009 and it has progressively become worse each year since.
$100 plus dollars for an event even less than half-ass is ridiculous. The race is all about the relay teams and fund raising for this that and the other. Just a cluster.
suculent wrote:
http://www.hometownlife.com/story/sports/2016/01/26/us-olympic-marathon-trials-hopeful-sent-course/79348112/
That's a nice story about the whole problem. It looks like the Detroit marathon has never been a USATF sanctioned race. Better word needs to get out in the running community that sanctioning is something to check off when picking a race where you might hit the OT standard.
What I found most interesting about the story is that the Michigan USATF person had no good explanation for why the Michigan sanctioning fee is so much higher than other areas and what value a race would get for paying it.
runnerboy1 wrote:
Mi USATF / The Freep Marathon - it's all just a microcosm of how f-ed up this area is. The previous race directors and staff could have addressed this to ensure the course is certified and sanctioned. I'd doubt the past or current sponsors are picking up the liability coverage. period. The city surely isn't, nor is the county. Neither has a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of.
Several years ago there were three heart attacks during the half, two which were fatal. I wonder if first responders were on the course, or if they had to wait for the City EMS to show up, if they did at all. And not being a sanctioned race, where the liability falls to ensure runner safety in the event something like this occurs.
A real shame of what the marathon has become.
How do I know - I've run it several times from 1993 through 2009 and it has progressively become worse each year since. $100 plus dollars for an event even less than half-ass is ridiculous. The race is all about the relay teams and fund raising for this that and the other. No wonder the race Just a cluster.The 27k participants from 2015 race is more than half made up of relay teams in all three races.
D.Katz wrote:
As mentioned, races have the option to get a Sanction without the insurance for a fraction of the cost - often, just a few hundred dollars.
Apparently the Michigan sanctioning fee is in the thousands, which is entirely not reasonable.
I see no reason to require sanctioning anyway, as long as the course has been certified to be accurate.
Rachel McFarlane qualified on a certified course, and should be included in the trials. If sanctioning is required, then it should be reasonable, and brought up to date immediately, so she can be included in the trials.
A great article.
The article says:
Among the marathons in the Midwest that do pay the USATF national and state sanctioning fees to have their course certified as U.S. Olympic Trials qualifiers include Chicago, Grandma’s (Duluth, Minn.), Columbus (Ohio), Akron (Ohio), Minneapolis and Indianapolis (headquarters of the USATF).
Why do the above mentioned marathons pay the USATF sanctioning fees and Detroit does not?
The answer may lie in the discrepancy between the local sanctioning fees charged from state to state.
Michigan charges the fourth highest local fee ($4,550), behind only Maine ($11,000), California Pacific ($5,000) and Nevada ($5,000). Meanwhile, the local fees in adjoining states are only $1,550 (Ohio), $600 (Wisconsin), $350 (Indiana) and Illinois ($175). New York charges $500.
The $5000 fee for USATF national if you get insurance is pretty reasonable for 19,000 competitors. It looks like the insurance would cost at least $4000 at this site
https://www.theeventhelper.com/The article says:
USTAF made overtures to pay a travel stipend for McFarlane to compete in another USATF-sanctioned race in order to qualify prior to the U.S. Olympic Marathon Trials.
Assuming the "sanctioning" requirement was on the website when the standards came out, yes the mistake was Rachel's but I'd say that Michigan's rates are way out of whack.
If you don't get USATF insurance, you can get a national sanction for $50. It's the Michigan fees that are a problem.
rojo wrote:
If you don't get USATF insurance, you can get a national sanction for $50. It's the Michigan fees that are a problem.
So it seems like we should be able to get a sanction if we paid $5050 dollars. Maybe less as the 19,000 competitors was for all races. I have no idea how many were just in the half marathon.
The question is , 'Will they be willing to retroactively give us the sanction." I haven't heard back from USATF and will call them now.
rojo wrote:
rojo wrote:If you don't get USATF insurance, you can get a national sanction for $50. It's the Michigan fees that are a problem.
So it seems like we should be able to get a sanction if we paid $5050 dollars. Maybe less as the 19,000 competitors was for all races. I have no idea how many were just in the half marathon.
The question is , 'Will they be willing to retroactively give us the sanction." I haven't heard back from USATF and will call them now.
I can't say enough about how awesome it is that you're doing this. Thanks for reminding me why I love this website and the LRC community.
rojo wrote:
The question is , 'Will they be willing to retroactively give us the sanction." I haven't heard back from USATF and will call them now.
Good work, Rojo. ; )
nnakkaiiaiakna.a wrote:
What I found most interesting about the story is that the Michigan USATF person had no good explanation for why the Michigan sanctioning fee is so much higher than other areas and what value a race would get for paying it.
That is average. They have no competition. How much is that rep making?
I have no dog in this hunt, but for what it's worth. After reading a blog post last year by Camille Herron regarding certification AND sanction criteria for OTQ and some issues others had run into, I made it a priority for me AND my runners who were chasing at OTQ time to ensure the races had both.
I always wondered why it is rare for any of the Hansons runners to run this race. It is in their backyard and I only remember a few years when they ran. Now I understand.
rojo wrote:
rojo wrote:If you don't get USATF insurance, you can get a national sanction for $50. It's the Michigan fees that are a problem.
So it seems like we should be able to get a sanction if we paid $5050 dollars. Maybe less as the 19,000 competitors was for all races. I have no idea how many were just in the half marathon.
The question is , 'Will they be willing to retroactively give us the sanction." I haven't heard back from USATF and will call them now.
rojo wrote:
rojo wrote:If you don't get USATF insurance, you can get a national sanction for $50. It's the Michigan fees that are a problem.
So it seems like we should be able to get a sanction if we paid $5050 dollars. Maybe less as the 19,000 competitors was for all races. I have no idea how many were just in the half marathon.
The question is , 'Will they be willing to retroactively give us the sanction." I haven't heard back from USATF and will call them now.