For the female body experts, what do you think of Ajee Wilson's Q angle? Is she all set, or is she due for a hard fall in the near future?
For the female body experts, what do you think of Ajee Wilson's Q angle? Is she all set, or is she due for a hard fall in the near future?
Cain: Jim Mitchell.
rojo wrote:
Why do people act like the coach makes the athlete and not vice versa.
Efraimson's coach talks to Salazar about stuff. I don't see how Efraimson's success has much of anything to do with Salazar.
Who was Jim Ryun's HS coach? Who was Mary Cain's initial HS coach? etc.
Efraimson already had an ideal stride, which was why she was such a good prospect, whereas Cain was running 4:11 already at 16 with a very sub-optimal stride AND with workouts far below her race performances, as Salazar indicated. So, there wasn't much of a transition for Efraimson. No one would change her stride. Whether she'd be successful running as a pro already in hs was unknown with her struggles at 5k being alarming, but she has been incredible. Now, if Cain had taken more shots at times in fast pro races at 17, she would likely have run faster than 4:04. She ran that time down in southern California (Occidental?) in May, followed that with 1:59.51 at Pre, and then did not run any races for time the rest of the year.
jjjjjj wrote:
whereas Cain was running 4:11 already at 16 with a very sub-optimal stride AND with workouts far below her race performances, as Salazar indicated.
Actually her form was very good, the basis for her quality times, and Salazar screwed it up, which is why she is not running as well anymore.
Bass Ackwards wrote:
jjjjjj wrote:whereas Cain was running 4:11 already at 16 with a very sub-optimal stride AND with workouts far below her race performances, as Salazar indicated.
Actually her form was very good, the basis for her quality times, and Salazar screwed it up, which is why she is not running as well anymore.
I agree. Cain's drop off is indicative of a big problem in her coaching.
I love it how peoe think coaches DON'T matter. Yes it's the players that play and it's ultimately on them. Some great coaches aren't a good fit for everyone. But the truth is humans need a leader and supporter. Coaches matter.
I was running on an elite post collegiate team and the head coach was out of town. He gave the workout to the team and said meet up and do it. These are 23-30 year old men. It took 45 min past the normal practice time before the warm up got started. Elites are babies and need to be coddled.
jjjjjj wrote:
Efraimson already had an ideal stride, which was why she was such a good prospect, whereas Cain was running 4:11 already at 16 with a very sub-optimal stride AND with workouts far below her race performances, as Salazar indicated. So, there wasn't much of a transition for Efraimson. No one would change her stride. Whether she'd be successful running as a pro already in hs was unknown with her struggles at 5k being alarming, but she has been incredible. Now, if Cain had taken more shots at times in fast pro races at 17, she would likely have run faster than 4:04. She ran that time down in southern California (Occidental?) in May, followed that with 1:59.51 at Pre, and then did not run any races for time the rest of the year.
Based on Cain's race performance at 16, her workouts then were about right.
dwclination wrote:
For the female body experts, what do you think of Ajee Wilson's Q angle? Is she all set, or is she due for a hard fall in the near future?
Wilson just turned 21 last month, unless she changes her diet or training substantially (unlikely) you would not expect to see major changes. She has done a pretty good job avoiding injury but it is unlikely to stay that way forever considering the intensity required for her to stay at the highest levels. I would expect that if she has any troubles in the future it would stem from a nagging injury that throws her off that anything to do with maturation.
In general, the issue is often no the Q angle itself but when it changes. When that happens a runners bio-mechanics become a moving target - this means for a time you can either limit the training or expect more frequent injuries (sometimes both) and when a female runner finishes maturing she might not be as efficient as before. Its pretty much a crap shoot, and is usually accompanied but a host of other issues (loss of confidence, drastic changes in training, etc etc) that make matters worse. For every Mary Decker (non-PED version) who comes through the process (and even she had issues for a few years) stronger, there are a lot more Georgie Clarke's who struggle for a long while.
Coaches Matter wrote:
I love it how peoe think coaches DON'T matter. Yes it's the players that play and it's ultimately on them. Some great coaches aren't a good fit for everyone. But the truth is humans need a leader and supporter. Coaches matter.
I was running on an elite post collegiate team and the head coach was out of town. He gave the workout to the team and said meet up and do it. These are 23-30 year old men. It took 45 min past the normal practice time before the warm up got started. Elites are babies and need to be coddled.
Just because you and your training partners have no discipline doesnt mean that everyone else doesnt also.
Mary Decker had years and years of struggles, due to injuries. And she in fact wasn't even running at one point. So, Cain has a long time to get back. What I was saying about form was that Efraimson's form already looked perfect, so a coach was not going to interfere with that, whereas Cain's form (not the legs/feet but the arms and upper body) looked to be a major hindrance and Salazar took the bait. He might have just given her the strengthening exercises and those alone might have helped but he had her work back up from scratch with light running in probably fall/winter 2013 while only working on her new form, and then had her doing heavy mileage that she'd never done this past fall/winter, before deciding finally that she wasn't going to be a 5k runner. He made a lot of mistakes with her and she also lost her motivation for running with the prom and college orientation claims.
in other words Salazar's job was to build something from the pieces, and instead he set to pounding the square peg into the round hole.
Les wrote:
Yeah, Efraimson looks more mature physically and as a person than Cain was at that age. Cain came off as a giggly adolescent.
It's a lot of pressure. I think athletes can buckle...
The last part of that quote reminded me of Andy wheating.
I don't understand what makes people stop performing when it would seem they are capable.
rojo wrote:
Why do people act like the coach makes the athlete and not vice versa.
Efraimson's coach talks to Salazar about stuff. I don't see how Efraimson's success has much of anything to do with Salazar.
Who was Jim Ryun's HS coach? Who was Mary Cain's initial HS coach? etc.
Bob Timmons, the younger people may not know this but the people 30+ likely do.
Mary born 3/3/96 ran her 4:04 on 5/17/13 and in the 11' th grade
Alexa born 2/29/07 ran her 4:03 on 5/30/15 and in the 12 th grade
So Alexa did run much faster at a older age, About 18 and 3 mouths when Mary was abut 17 and 2months
rojo wrote:
Dttrdtrddtrrry wrote:Odds of Efraimson joining Salazar = 0.000000000000001%
Odds of Efraimson staying with her present coach = 99%
Why do people act like the coach makes the athlete and not vice versa.
Efraimson's coach talks to Salazar about stuff. I don't see how Efraimson's success has much of anything to do with Salazar.
Who was Jim Ryun's HS coach? Who was Mary Cain's initial HS coach? etc.
True
She's looking like a bargain now at $85/yr!!! Damn!!
How about someone get Alexa into a mile so we can get rid of the outdated 4:35 HS record and stop having to convert Cain and now Alexa's far superior 1500 times.
Am I the only one who hates the stupid 3 and 3/4 lap event?
I feel like Cain will return to her form after her re-charging.
When she does - this might have the rivalry similar to Coe vs Ovett. Cain is already the media darling. Her innocent, bubbly personality is eaten up by the media. They love her. Meanwhile, Alexa is almost forgotten. She seems to always be lurking and looks so serious.
They are both 7-8 years from the prime of their running. Imagine how much they could improve - barring Alan Webb syndrome.
Okay, I've been reading LRC forums for like the last 10 months, and this is the first time I've ever heard of the "Q angle." What the h3ll is a Q angle?
That's a nice analysis but how old is Cain now. She is still slower than Alex and is about a year older so.......
DaveyGuy wrote:
Mary born 3/3/96 ran her 4:04 on 5/17/13 and in the 11' th grade
Alexa born 2/29/07 ran her 4:03 on 5/30/15 and in the 12 th grade
So Alexa did run much faster at a older age, About 18 and 3 mouths when Mary was abut 17 and 2months