Can't break 17 5K. Frustrated and giving it one last shot. Looking for training advice.

Are there any running clubs around with an experienced coach?

I managed to add huge chunks of time to my races of all distances by working with experienced coaches.

'Right now, I've just been running about 30 miles a week for the past three weeks on a treadmill'

Crap like this might be one reason

Do you train alone. That could be one reason. Human runner is like a horse - faster in a herd. I don't like this Daniels pace crap either run the reps as fast as you can as long as times consistent

17 miles is too far for 5km training turns you into a plodder

There's a lot of good advice in this thread. I'm in a similar boat to the OP, my current pr is 17:46, and breaking 17 is a long-term (2-3 year) goal.

To the OP I would say:

1. Focus less on speed- a lot of people have said it, and they're right. You have great sprinting speed, but you need to work on developing your ability to hold a good pace. This is a weakness of mine as well, although I have gotten a lot better at it in the last year.

2. Find the right race- find a big race with a lot of fast runners. At least where I'm from, sub-17 means you're going to run the entire race by yourself, usually in 1st place. If you can get in a race with several people at 16:30-17:00 it will be much easier to hold pace.

3. Join a running club if possible- a lot of people have mentioned this as well, and I know I always run better workouts with training partners.

OP, good luck with your goals, sub-17 is an impressive feat.

I'll coach you for free. When do you want to start?

Coach Cookie wrote:

I'll coach you for free. When do you want to start?

Take this offer, Maple! I'm sure Cookie Coach is darn good!

free beer and coaching wrote:

Coach Cookie wrote:

I'll coach you for free. When do you want to start?

Take this offer, Maple! I'm sure Cookie Coach is darn good!

I don't think you know who I am, but yes, I'm pretty good.

70 a week is more than enough, long run of 12 is also more than enough. You have plenty of speed but your 10k pr indicates you have no strength. You need to do lots of volume at around 6 minute pace: 6 x mile, 3 x 2mile, stuff like that. Goal pace 5 k stuff should be 10 x 800 or 8 x 1,000. with your speed you dont need to do much shorter stuff but mile or 1,500 pace stuff always helps.

Is anyone else getting the feeling that one guy is making all these posts?

SMJO wrote:

I managed to add huge chunks of time to my races of all distances by working with experienced coaches.

SMJO, I'm still waiting on you to explain how you can see genes with your bare eyes but doctors have to rely on genetic tests and machinery.

I think your mileage could be too high. Are you feel fresh and well rested between runs? You don't need that many miles to run a fast 5k especially since you're very fit already. What is your body frame like? If you're a big guy, you may need more longer repeats to give you extra strength for the last mile.

higher miles wrote:

SMJO wrote:

I managed to add huge chunks of time to my races of all distances by working with experienced coaches.

SMJO, I'm still waiting on you to explain how you can see genes with your bare eyes but doctors have to rely on genetic tests and machinery.

Oh my, here too.

SMJO wrote:

higher miles wrote:

SMJO, I'm still waiting on you to explain how you can see genes with your bare eyes but doctors have to rely on genetic tests and machinery.

Oh my, here too.

Yes, oh my here too you refuse to answer my question. How can you see genes with your bare eyes? Why don't you tell doctors your secret?

Sleep 10 hours per day.

Train at 90 mpw for 2 months straight.

Don't have sex with your wife or hand.

Have a very strict diet.

Introduce weight training.

Don't forget speed as we'll,

BOOM, 14:36 in June.

higher miles wrote:

SMJO wrote:

Oh my, here too.

Yes, oh my here too you refuse to answer my question. How can you see genes with your bare eyes? Why don't you tell doctors your secret?

I open my eyes up very wide and make sure the light is very bright. There. My secret is out.

Maple wrote:

So here are some workout stats:

- I can routinely knock out 29 to 32’s on a 12x200 (200m jog recovery) workout.

- 11x400 (with 60 second standing recovery) all at 1:13’s

Your speed is certainly fast enough to break the 17 minute barrier. Now is the time to lay off the fast stuff.

Maple wrote:

- 3x1600 (with 90 second standing recovery) - (5:23, 5:38, 5:29)

You endurance, on the other hand, is what is keeping you back. Your 10K time confirms it. At your level of fitness, you should be running a 10K in the 36 minute range.

When you run your 1600 workout faster, you will be ready.

3x1600m with 90s recovery at 5:20 pace

You could try a workout like:

2x2400m with 90s recover at 8:10 pace

Other people have posted on how to improve your endurance, so I won't repeat them.

Also, you longest run to too long. 17 miles is good from marathon but that is not what you are training for.

Good Luck.

You definitely dont need to give up running when you have a child. I took up running when I had one two years ago. I was doing over 40 miles per week with the stroller (and more without) at one point. I think we did over 20 miles one day.

Have your wife feed your baby and head out. My daughter slept everytime and it was a break for my wife.

Only bad experience was when I was late for a race and my wife didnt have time to feed my daughter right before. She didnt sleep a lot and did a lot of crying.

From 6 months to 18 months I went from a 185 lbs fatty running 103 minute half-marathon to 165 running 84 minute. Both of these are while pushing the stroller. (It's almost a year later and I am almost under 150 lbs and looking to break 78 minutes..... no stroller because she is running around herself.)

Your mileage doesn't support 17 miles for a long run.

Long run back to 20% of weekly mileage, do it easy.

Monday-easy

Tuesday- Hard

Wednesday- Easy

Thursday- Easy->Moderate

Friday-Hard

Saturday- Easy

Sunday- Long, Easy->Moderate.

You shouldn't be knocking out regular sessions of 12x200 if you're already that fast. Run 4-6x mile at 10k pace. run 10x800 and average 2:39. Run 16x400 (1min rest) at 79/lap.

you have plenty of speed, so scrap the shorter reps and just add 4-6x200 after your tempo runs.

You just don't any specific endurance for 5000m. Give the 5k race specific workouts a shot and forget about hammering long runs and sprints.

Haven't read any of the thread yet but would like to say:

1) When I broke 17 I couldn't have touched those workouts you are doing.

2) My teammates and I were doing pace work 4 days a week, a threshold day (either 4x1000m with 2 min rest or 6x800m with 2 min rest), and a long run on Saturdays and Sunday off. I did easy 3-5 mile morning runs with core after the 3 mile runs or strides after the 5 mile runs. On recovery days we did either 3 400s(2 min rest), 10 200s(45-60 sec rest), or 400-800-400 ladder (2 min rest) all at 5k goal pace(80 sec 400). On hard days we either had a 5k race, did a hard fartlek ladder at 5k or faster pace with equal rest, 16 x 400s on 2:30 cycle hammering #12 and #16, etc.

3) I was doing 60 mpw at this time, my teammates weren't doing the morning runs so they were around 40 mpw. 40-60 mpw, depending on whether or not you double, would be plenty.

I think really, just do pace work. 400s and maybe 800s are great for pace work. If you don't run at race pace, your body isn't efficient running at race pace. Just because you can kill a workout doesn't mean you should. Like Leo Manzano told me once that sometimes he'll do a 1500m pace workout like 10 400s in 57-58 with a minute rest, and some days he could hit 55 the whole way but that defeats the purpose as the goal is to learn what race pace feels like and to get comfortable running at that pace.

Hope that helps.