I think they didn't get the same opportunity I did. Or they were in a different place in life than I was as a young adult. Or they had other asperations. Or maybe something else.
What I don't do is think I'm superior because I spent my late teens/early twenties studying, running track, and partying instead of whatever it was they were doing.
Mr. Potato head,
I don't see an argument here. The original poster asked what everyone thought of anyone without a 4-year degree. That was a general assertion. I gave a counter example.
An American wrote:
We get all these kids going to university and paying way too much for a worthless degree which cannot add value to our society.
I'm so sick of people saying this.
1. College degrees are NOT worthless. Even if the subject you earned your degree in is worthless, the degree itself isn't. A college degree shows that someone is a hard worker, has dedication, and could stick it out for at least 4 years. That's valuable information and useful to potential employers.
2. College degrees (higher education) do add value to society. How don't they?
3. You have to factor in all the things that can come with a college degree besides spending a lot of $$$. College gives people life experience, connections, more chances for upward mobility, and memories that last a lifetime. For most people college is the greatest time of their life. Is that worth it? There's a lot more to think about besides how much money it costs.
Reaper wrote:
An American wrote:We get all these kids going to university and paying way too much for a worthless degree which cannot add value to our society.
I'm so sick of people saying this.
1. College degrees are NOT worthless. Even if the subject you earned your degree in is worthless, the degree itself isn't. A college degree shows that someone is a hard worker, has dedication, and could stick it out for at least 4 years. That's valuable information and useful to potential employers.
2. College degrees (higher education) do add value to society. How don't they?
3. You have to factor in all the things that can come with a college degree besides spending a lot of $$$. College gives people life experience, connections, more chances for upward mobility, and memories that last a lifetime. For most people college is the greatest time of their life. Is that worth it? There's a lot more to think about besides how much money it costs.
All of this could be said about a four year hitch in the military. Only you'd learn a lot more, work a lot harder, add a lot more to society, and would be getting paid a good salary while you did it. Then, if you still wanted to go to college, Tio Sammy would foot the bill.
old college math professor wrote:
Mr. Potato head,
I don't see an argument here. The original poster asked what everyone thought of anyone without a 4-year degree. That was a general assertion. I gave a counter example.
I certainly wasn't implying that I agreed with the OP in that they are idiots. Quite the contrary. I fell victim to participating in the "evolved" discussion that has taken place since the OP posted.
I find it funny how you lots of people relate degrees with making money.. I dropped out of college and make more than my college professor GF who has a phd btw.
SomeCoach wrote:
It doesn't help when our culture lives with the concept of debt. If you want something NOW you get it NOW ... and to hell to what I already have on my credit card. Another car loan? Sure, why not. Since we live in a culture of debt, an 18 year old thinks it's the norm, and figures "what the hell" without realizing (truly) what that means on the back end. Adults need to intervene, and assist with making these decisions. Those of us who have gone through getting a college degree know that, in the end, the piece of paper from STATE-U gets the job done (nearly, if not completely) as effectively as the piece of paper from IVY-U.
Did you seriously just categorize taking on student-loan debt as "instant gratification" on par with taking on a loan to buy a fancier than necessary car? Deferring work and making money straight out of high school in hopes of greater opportunities down the road is practically the definition of delayed gratification!
Then again, you lost all credibility when you said that crappy state school degrees and Ivy degrees are equivalent.
funny wrote:
I find it funny how you lots of people relate degrees with making money.. I dropped out of college and make more than my college professor GF who has a phd btw.
College profs also don't make that much. I guarantee you don't make anywhere near the money the Ph.D's do where I work. Not anywhere close.
funny wrote:
I find it funny how you lots of people relate degrees with making money.. I dropped out of college and make more than my college professor GF who has a phd btw.
It's funny how people bring up an anecdotal example of a anomaly that clearly is the exception to the rule and think it proves something. There is vast data showing that, on average, people who go to college will earn much more over their lifetimes than those who do not.
Maybe if you hadn't dropped out, you would have learned that bringing up an outlier doesn't disprove a trend.
*an anomaly
Rae got it goin' on pal wrote:
Reaper wrote:I'm so sick of people saying this.
1. College degrees are NOT worthless. Even if the subject you earned your degree in is worthless, the degree itself isn't. A college degree shows that someone is a hard worker, has dedication, and could stick it out for at least 4 years. That's valuable information and useful to potential employers.
2. College degrees (higher education) do add value to society. How don't they?
3. You have to factor in all the things that can come with a college degree besides spending a lot of $$$. College gives people life experience, connections, more chances for upward mobility, and memories that last a lifetime. For most people college is the greatest time of their life. Is that worth it? There's a lot more to think about besides how much money it costs.
All of this could be said about a four year hitch in the military. Only you'd learn a lot more, work a lot harder, add a lot more to society, and would be getting paid a good salary while you did it. Then, if you still wanted to go to college, Tio Sammy would foot the bill.
True, but that doesn't make college a bad option.
how can you possibly know how much i make.. or even know the ball park of what my income is?
There are plenty of statistics that show that college grads earn way more than their peers who don't attend college. But, what does this mean? We definitely can't infer that going to college will earn every individual more money.
College administrators love programs like criminal justice and communications that warehouse students who want a four year party with an expensive cover charge. Most of those students will take a long time to catch up, financially, especially if they attend a college for academically challenged children of financially gifted parents. Many of these students don't have a clue what they want to do in life, and are only going to college because everyone else is. They would be better served working a few years, or ging into the military.
Students who work their butt off, such as those in quantitative fields, will do very well, of course. Any engineering field will pay off.
As for the OP, I would say that a student who goes to college because everyone else does, borrows a lot of money because the financial aid office tells them to, and selects a major because they heard it is easy, is a complete dullard, even if they have a B.S. degree. There are a lot these college students out there, and college administrators love them.
Among the adults I've known, the ones without four-year degrees have generally had more modest expectations and a lesser sense of entitlement. Also, they are often -- but certainly not always -- more realistic about their own intellectual limitations. I don't associate those qualities with "idiots," a derogatory term that I'm more inclined to associate with people who assert and stubbornly adhere to poorly reasoned opinions (and, more specifically, opinions with which I probably disagree).
If I'm assessing someone's intellect, I don't give much weight to whether he or she possesses a four-year degree. It's a bit like assessing a runner's ability based on whether or not he or she has completed a marathon. It provides me with some information about a person's opportunities and goals, but not a lot of information about ability and even less information about talent.
funny wrote:
how can you possibly know how much i make.. or even know the ball park of what my income is?
Educated guess. Ba da tsssss!
Sorry, couldn't resist.
funny wrote:
how can you possibly know how much i make.. or even know the ball park of what my income is?
Fine, I'll put the number out there. Alan is making $200k/year.
coach d wrote:
Bill Gates
Mark Zuckerberg
Steve Jobs
None of them has (had) a college degree.
Now I have a Masters, but not having a college degree doesn't make you an idiot. One could say that the ones who work their way through a 4 year degree paid for by student loans are the idiots, and the way to be REALLY successful is to drop out of Harvard to do something better.
hang around here long enough & you'll see a post you can actually applaud - even from guys who post stuff you completely disagree with 99% of the time..
coach d wrote:
Bill Gates
Mark Zuckerberg
Steve Jobs
None of them has (had) a college degree.
Now I have a Masters, but not having a college degree doesn't make you an idiot. One could say that the ones who work their way through a 4 year degree paid for by student loans are the idiots, and the way to be REALLY successful is to drop out of Harvard to do something better.
You're a moron for bringing up 3 successfulle person out of thousand without succes who tried the same, all with brilliant minds. Yeah, everybody should start their own company....ehh
Engineering will always give you great jobs around the world, want to be an engineer? You have to go to college/uni.
Want to be a doctor? The same.
Etc.
Those who are idiots are those who take a long and expensive education within a profession where they are unlikely to get a job.
In Europe university is often very cheap, why doesn't more americans take advantage of that? They should.
wow.. wrote:
SomeCoach wrote:It doesn't help when our culture lives with the concept of debt. If you want something NOW you get it NOW ... and to hell to what I already have on my credit card. Another car loan? Sure, why not. Since we live in a culture of debt, an 18 year old thinks it's the norm, and figures "what the hell" without realizing (truly) what that means on the back end. Adults need to intervene, and assist with making these decisions. Those of us who have gone through getting a college degree know that, in the end, the piece of paper from STATE-U gets the job done (nearly, if not completely) as effectively as the piece of paper from IVY-U.
Did you seriously just categorize taking on student-loan debt as "instant gratification" on par with taking on a loan to buy a fancier than necessary car? Deferring work and making money straight out of high school in hopes of greater opportunities down the road is practically the definition of delayed gratification!
Then again, you lost all credibility when you said that crappy state school degrees and Ivy degrees are equivalent.
So, you've bought into the propaganda have you. I feel poorly that you can't see through the fact that expensive colleges are just not worth the price. And paying the extra money for that degree leaves one with a lot of debt that students are having a great deal of trouble getting out from under.
In terms of the Ivy schools, again, you don't have all your information. Cornell University did a 20 year study that was released long enough ago that I can't find it on-line. It found that the student determined the degree of success, not the institution. And this lie about "connections" is just that, and most of these so-called connections were available to the student before entering the Ivy.
My crappy State School cost $6500 total ... and I make six figures ... suckers .....
I interview people, along with others, and we don't give a CRAP if you graduated from MIT or Ohio State. Either you fit in, or you don't. Either you're going to be able to do the job, or you aren't.