I liked my translation (2nd page in the thread) a little better, but yes, it's inclear to me how skeptical they are.
I liked my translation (2nd page in the thread) a little better, but yes, it's inclear to me how skeptical they are.
ukathleticscoach wrote:Interesting that according to Ventolin, Ryun could have run 3:24 for 1500m on faster tracks but he is capable of a closing 300m on the same old tracks in 36.4 and the fastest last lap ever in a sub 3:40
what's the inconsistency ???
i reckon he had low-45 speed
that is helluva lot faster than likes of hicham/morceli/bernie who are fastest 1500 guys - they woud been 48.0 +/- 0.25s
noah was almost certainly fastest of them ( on strength of his incredible 1k wr off a high-49 ) at low-46
that's why these guys ( apart from noah ) coudn't expect better than a 50s finish in a slow 1500 - their basic 400 speed was too slow at ~ 48.0
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Even this report casts doubt on the time:
'Its time for the last 400 meters is so incredible that it sports writers apparently did not dare to publish. Still moving in traditional categories, they stated times, who commuted 51 to 53 seconds. In fact, Ryun ran a flying start the last lap in 49.4 seconds. This time is guaranteed, she was stopped by Bayer coach Sumser. The last 300 meters in 36.4 seconds sprinted down Ryun, which means a speed of nearly 29 miles per hour, and this after he had already completed 1100 m at a speed of 23.5 km per hour.'
So other reports had the last lap as 51-53 seconds
Interesting that according to Ventolin, Ryun could have run 3:24 for 1500m on faster tracks but he is capable of a closing 300m on the same old tracks in 36.4 and the fastest last lap ever in a sub 3:40
Agreed! And this German "expert" is clearly no such person. Since when has an 11.6 100m been equivalent to 29 mph!??
Hicham said 49-50 seconds for 400m and 1:45 for 800m. I then asked his coach the same questions-he said he has run 48 for 400m and 1:44 high for 800m in training. He said he would do 4X800m at 1:48 each with 3min rest between them in training. He said he thought he could probably run 1:43 low at 800
the lines of fit i use for him in '98 ( remember 3'26.00 with a 53+ finish ), before ever seeing above are
48.1 / 1'43.2 -> 2'11.9 , 3'25.4
48.0 / 1'43.1 -> 2'11.8 , 3'25.4
47.9 / 1'43.0 -> 2'11.7 , 3'25.4
47.8 / 1'42.9 -> 2'11.6 , 3'25.4
which is the correct one we can't really know until he or his coach give an interview or write a book
moronthat's why i said the google translation was poorread the original german
Die letzten 300 m sprintete Ryun in 36,4 Sekunden herunter; das bedeutet eine Geschwindigkeit von beinahe 29 km pro Stunde und dies, nachdem er bereits 1100 m in einem Tempo von 23,5 km pro Stunde absolviert hatte
that's 29.6 km/h for 36.4 in 300m
& 23.4 km/h for a 2'48.8 at the bell
deanouk wrote:
And this German "expert" is clearly no such person.
The experte who timed Ryun was Bert Sumser, coach of Armin Hary. He should be more than capable of timing a lap.
ventolin^3 wrote:
mid distance wrote:So when some poster claims another athlete is credited with a 36.14 last 300 (to be precise) in (a faster than Ryun's race) 3:34.82, you say it must be wrong!!moron
i doubted it because i don't believe aouita had better than low-49 speed in '84
his line of fit for '84 was prelim ~
49.2 / 1'45.5 -> 3'29.9 , 7'26.4 , 12'56.7
ROFL!!!
If you think Aouita could only manage 49.2 for 400 in any season, then you really do have s**t for brains.
He'd already run 22.6 (200) & 46.9 for 400m in the early 80's. He had greater basic speed than Cram in 84, who ran a 47.6 relay leg at the end of the season. That's worth 48.2 open. Aouita was capable of under 48 in 84, and I'd say closer to 47 mid. His basic speed and change of pace were reminiscent of Ovett in his peak years.
Even the season he ran his 10k pb, Aouita would have been way under 49 secs. His 800pb, if he'd run more of them in his peak years should be around 1:43 flat. His 1:43.86 is not reflective of his ability at the distance.
ventolin^3 wrote:
ukathleticscoach wrote:Interesting that according to Ventolin, Ryun could have run 3:24 for 1500m on faster tracks but he is capable of a closing 300m on the same old tracks in 36.4 and the fastest last lap ever in a sub 3:40what's the inconsistency ???
i reckon he had low-45 speed
You "reckon", you "think", ........ Exactly! This is all supposition.
Only you can take someone with a 46.9 relay split and declare him a 45 low runner, and then take Aouita's open best of 46.9 and declare he could only run 49.2!
You're living in a fantasy land.
moron
those 22.8 ( not 22.6 ) & 46.9 are training runs, never in a competition not even a relay
there is significant doubt about these
if he was running 46.9 anytime during '84 or '85 he wouda been running 1'42-low
in '83 he was a 1500/800 guy with 3'32.54/1'44.38
he had no serious 5k time
in '84 he changed his focus completely to 1500/5k with 3'31.54/13'04 & dropped the 800
his focus from '83 to '84 changed immensely & the likely 48-flat speed he had in '83 slowed significantly to get the 5k down to close to 13-flat
he woudn't have broken 49 in '84, he'd become an endurance machine
by '85 he'd added speed back & incredibly maintained endurance getting his speed down to likely 48-flat & giving 3'28-flat potential
get that into your numbskull
aouita along with gus choge are the 2 runners in recent history with the greatest ability to change their speed/endurance profile season-to-season with aouita varying from 1'43 to 1'45 between '83 to '89
mid distance wrote:You "reckon", you "think", ........ Exactly! This is all supposition
moron
of course it is
has anyone ever claimed ryun ran low-45 on a synthetic track in '66 ???
i said it's highly probable he woud have if given the opportunity
doesn't your peabrain comprehend this ???
Only you can take someone with a 46.9 relay split and declare him a 45 low runner, and then take Aouita's open best of 46.9 and declare he could only run 49.2!
moron
that 46.9 wasn't even a relay
if it was there wouda been a record of it
it is a vague statement of a training run
aouita was endurance not speed in '84 - no significant 800 at all & he'd run 1'44.38 in '83
get it into your numbskull
he'd traded his speed to get his 5k down from nothing to 13'04 & fortunate consequence for him was that he'd got his 3'32.5 down to 3'31.5 as a result
You're living in a fantasy land.
you are an idiot
'what's the inconsistency ???'
The inconsistency is how does someone do sub 50 on a slow track.
In the article of the week on the homepage there is an paragraph on fastest last laps. No mention is made of this race. The times you have for the 400m in particularly the last 300m are unsubstantiated.
How is the guy you mentioned the timing the last 300m. He cannot be at both the 300m point and the finish line so the time is inaccurate- especially as there is no marker for the 300m point visible from a distance.
Only if times taking by the official time keepers can there be any accuracy
ukathleticscoach wrote:
'what's the inconsistency ???'
The inconsistency is how does someone do sub 50 on a slow track.
In the article of the week on the homepage there is an paragraph on fastest last laps. No mention is made of this race. The times you have for the 400m in particularly the last 300m are unsubstantiated.
How is the guy you mentioned the timing the last 300m. He cannot be at both the 300m point and the finish line so the time is inaccurate- especially as there is no marker for the 300m point visible from a distance.
Only if times taking by the official time keepers can there be any accuracy
Good point.
He is too obtuse not to see that 3 different published times for the last 400m is inconsistency. And a wide range inconsistency at that. 49.4, 49.7 & 50.6, which would all have been hand times, is a 1.2 range.
clearly you are coupla idiots
link the article
does it also include aouita's 36+ in grosseto ?
have you ever seen an official 1100m time for hicham in his epic rieti race in '02 when it's likely he went thru in ~ 2'31+ !!!???
it's simple to time both the 400 & 300 splits
you stand at finish line & get the 400 split & turn around & time them as they pass the clearly marked 1500m start line - i never used to go to a track meet without at least 2 stopwatches
it's not rocket science you idiots
& there are never anything such as "official splits" for interim unless it is a race distance, such as a 1500 split in a mile race or a 800m in a 1k race or 3k split in a 2 mile race - even those are often lacking - there is no "official" 3k split in buster's 8'03 or komen's 2k in his 7'20
as for ryun, the german article is straight after the race & most detailed - it says 49.4, so i'd go with that rather than whoever claims 49.7 or 50.6 - name the others to decide on credibility
ryun if you had a clue, still owns the fastest last lap in a 800wr at an unofficial 51.3 in his 1'44.3wr
speed was his trademark
You are a muppet.
If you are standing at the finish line you cannot see a line on the track at the 1500 start line. There isn't a big flag or arrow hovering above it to show where it is. It's not always clear from the stands either.
There were no official 1100 or 1200 times given at the time for the Dusseldorf race, hence the inconsistency with the last 400. Any times given would have been hand timed and again subject to discrepancy. Many more recent races have electronic timing on screen and can give splits to the nearest 0.1. No video footage has been seen for Ryun's race so any splits given will be less accurate.
At least the Aouita split was given as 36.14, which would suggest a 1200m time was given.
There were no official splits given in many 1500 races, but you can work them out by looking at the video and running clock, which is a damn sight more reliable than someone standing 50 metres away and judging when to start the stopwatch while trying to work out where the line is .
About the only thing you got right is that indeed Ryun's 400 split in his 800 was "UNofficial"
moron
you must be an idiot if you can't turn your gaze from the finish line to the 1500 start line which is at the start of the bend & take a time
clearly you are a moron
there were no official 1100 or 1200 times taken in any 1500 race in the '60s as it's not an official race distance, which even your peabrain shoud understand
there aren't even any clock splits at 1100 or 1200 for keino's gold run
the dusseldorf race has a detailed account - the most detailed anyone has ever provided & even caveats that "experts" coudn't believe a 49.4 & tried to dress it up as standard 51 - 53 fast finishes of the era
it's not an american account, but a german account, which is not going to do any favours to americans, even moreso that sumser, the timer, had spent the outstanding part of his coaching career coaching armin to beat the americans
if your numbskull is incapable of ingesting the article, that's your problem
'you must be an idiot if you can't turn your gaze from the finish line to the 1500 start line which is at the start of the bend & take a time'
You cannot see accurately from that distance a runner passing over a line.
Check this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXk-_P3jFLw
Look at 2:05.05 where the official time is automatically taken. Even from the view of the camera which is considerably better than you would get at ground level and further away you can't see anything at the 300m point.
The only way on the ground to do it accurately, would be to take the time at the 300m point, then run round to the finish line.
The 1500m start point is not at the start of the bend either! If you'd ever run a track race you might have noticed that.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
'you must be an idiot if you can't turn your gaze from the finish line to the 1500 start line which is at the start of the bend & take a time'
You cannot see accurately from that distance a runner passing over a line.
Check this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXk-_P3jFLwLook at 2:05.05 where the official time is automatically taken. Even from the view of the camera which is considerably better than you would get at ground level and further away you can't see anything at the 300m point.
The only way on the ground to do it accurately, would be to take the time at the 300m point, then run round to the finish line.
The 1500m start point is not at the start of the bend either! If you'd ever run a track race you might have noticed that.
Exactly. He doesn't even know where the 1500 start line is on a track! Good job he wasn't taking the splits in Dusseldorf. LOL.
Here's his kick in the 1968 Olympic final
ukathleticscoach wrote:'you must be an idiot if you can't turn your gaze from the finish line to the 1500 start line which is at the start of the bend & take a time'You cannot see accurately from that distance a runner passing over a line. Check this video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXk-_P3jFLwLook at 2:05.05 where the official time is automatically taken. Even from the view of the camera which is considerably better than you would get at ground level and further away you can't see anything at the 300m point. The only way on the ground to do it accurately, would be to take the time at the 300m point, then run round to the finish line.The 1500m start point is not at the start of the bend either! If you'd ever run a track race you might have noticed that.[/quote]
deanouk wrote:
Exactly. He doesn't even know where the 1500 start line is on a track! Good job he wasn't taking the splits in Dusseldorf. LOL.
morons
complete idiots as usual
tracks in '50's/'60s were invariably 100/100 for regular meets, expanded in '70s to more 110/90 & now usual 116/84
it was the only way the iaaf coud allow times to speed up but maintaining sub-65% energy return
the ole dusseldorf track almost certainly had the 300m mark at start of the bend as along with the other ancient tracks