1000M WR, Ngeny went through 800 in 1:44.62

I'll just ignore ventolin posts since they are just distracting.

Ngeny's lifetime PR's at 1500m and the mile are races where he was second to El G.

Lagat's lifetime PR's at 1500m and the mile are races where he was second to El G.

Cacho's lifetime PR at 1500m was in a race where he was second to El G.

Mehdi Baala's lifetime PR at 1500m was in a race where he was second to El G.

Venuste Niyongabo's lifetime PR at 1500m was in a race where he was second to El G.

William Circhir's lifetime PR at 1500m was in a race where he was third to El G.

Labin Rotich's lifetime PR at 1500m was in a race where he was second to El G.

All of the above ran sub 3:30 for 1500m.

All of them had El G in their best race.

So it seems that El G's style of always going for fast races is what really got people running fast during this time period.

Maybe Ngeny could have run 3:25.

But he would need El G in the race and El G always came out ahead when the race was fast except for one race against Lagat in 2004- 3:27.40 to 3:27.64

ventolin^3 wrote:

imbecile

15'00 guys have improved times in studies with glycogen loading & this is nowhere close to the 2 hours required to exhaust glycogen stores

offer some biochemical explanation for this phenomena

or not, as you haven't a clue about basic biochem

idiot

The truth is that carbo loading will not help a 1000 meter runner. OK, get that through your thick skull. Facts are stubborn things. I suppose food itself will help a runner who is deficient in nutritional components which that food contains. But for an athlete whose diet is adequate, carbo loading is a waste of time for a runner competing in 1000 meter races. IF you cannot grasp this, you're wasting my time.

moron

"This investigation examined the effect of a carbohydrate loading regimen on high intensity, short duration run performance"

"15-min run after two dietary treatments"

"Results indicate that a carbohydrate loading regimen increases CHO oxidation during exercise and improves high intensity, short duration run performance"

explain how this study, which no way exhausts glycogen store can be possible

show me the biochem

fetch it imbecile

My five year old daughter used the word "buffoon" to describe Patrick the starfish in Sponge Bob.

I'm just saying that maybe you can expand your vocabulary beyond "moron" and "imbecile."

That is a very interesting observation! It's sort of like Achilles and the Tortoise.

toro wrote:Maybe Ngeny could have run 3:25.

But he would need El G in the race and El G always came out ahead when the race was fast except for one race against Lagat in 2004- 3:27.40 to 3:27.64

noah didn't need hicham in his 1k wr...

ventolin^3 wrote:

"This investigation examined the effect of a carbohydrate loading regimen on high intensity, short duration run performance"

"15-min run after two dietary treatments"

Idiot, how is a 15 minute run relevant? You are too stupid to understand that Ngeny was done with his race in less than 15 percent of that time duration, meaning less than 132 seconds compared to the 900 you're referencing. Are you too slow to comprehend the difference, and that it is important here?

ventolin^3 wrote:

toro wrote:Maybe Ngeny could have run 3:25.

But he would need El G in the race and El G always came out ahead when the race was fast except for one race against Lagat in 2004- 3:27.40 to 3:27.64

noah didn't need hicham in his 1k wr...

He had a rabbit, you idiot. Of course he did not need ElG, and perhaps a rabbit could have helped him in a 1500 record attempt, but the point is: "Duh, he already had a rabbit."

moron

what part of your numbskull doesn't comprehend :

noah ran 1k wr without hicham in the race ???

jennifer cruz wrote:Idiot, how is a 15 minute run relevant? You are too stupid to understand that Ngeny was done with his race in less than 15 percent of that time duration, meaning less than 132 seconds compared to the 900 you're referencing. Are you too slow to comprehend the difference, and that it is important here?

imbecile

how the f*ck is 15'00 exhausting the glycogen stores if they take 2"00'00 to do so ???

that is the only argument you offer

moron

explain how they ran faster than 15'00 with cho loading with unexhaustd cho stores

impress me with boichem idiot

put up or shut the f*ck up

Ventolin - you are a complete jackass.

That is all.

Ventolin, you have never answered my questions, presumably because they are above your pay grade, which is likely minimum wage. You refuse to answer questions and then you pose irrelevant questions as a surrogate for thinking. You have utterly embarrassed yourself here (although not for the first time).

moron

you haven't a f*cking clue about basic biochem

pissant

you enter a topic which you have a retard knowledge of

i asked you :

"how the f*ck is 15'00 exhausting the glycogen stores if they take 2"00'00 to do so ???

that is the only argument you offer

explain how they ran faster than 15'00 with cho loading with unexhaustd cho stores

impress me with biochem idiot"

put up or f*ck off

Come on, Jenni

Stop bashing good ole Vent.

I mean really people, the carbo loading is not the point here. Of course your legs have two be a little bit sore if you ran under 3:30 just two days before, don't ya think?!

But a week rest, I think, is not needed. These athletes recover extremely quickly, thats the reason they can train so hard. And a hard effort might be like the icing on the cake for vo2max. The question is, can you go all out like 3:29 and have a effect like supercompensation from that?? Well, I think that's too much, but I'm not entirely convinced.

Ventolin,

This is a third member of the letsrun community agreeing that you are a complete jackass.

You are belligerent, totally reliant on the ad hominems "idiot" and "imbecile," and you simply want to pick a personal fight with whoever politely questions your often grandiose and 100% self-certain assertions.

Sorry that not everyone has taken a basic biochemistry class. Not everyone cares to or has the technical background to research this stuff on the internet, either. Perhaps you should be a good member of our community and offer to share your knowledge, rather than just trying to start academic pissing matches?

Please take this seriously; I am appalled by the persistent violence of your tone on this thread.

Sincerely,

Greg Marcil

Wait a sec. Doesn't this go against recent findings regarding glycogen repletion that people call the "Western Australia Carbo Load" method? It's the one where subjects did 2.5 mins @ 130% Vo2max and then a 30 sec sprint (I'd say that's pretty close to 3.5 minutes of work - granted it's on a bike), then took in carbs every hour. 24 hours later, glycogen levels soared to over 80% of pre test levels: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12048325.As far as myofibrillar damage is concerned, that's tough, but I'd have to concede that because it's a WR run, although only 1000m (because there's really no convincing research either way for short distances - although there is a study out there that indicates that middle distance runners benefit from no rest days during taper for optimum performance: https://www.thieme-connect.com/ejournals/abstract/sportsmed/doi/10.1055/s-2002-33146). That being said, though, you'll have to ask Komen about damage and how he ran 7:20 2 days after a 13:02.

ventolin^3 wrote:

moron

if you think any degree of glycogen depletion or myofibril damage of 3'29.1 from 2/7 before doesn't impair performance for a race 2/7 later , then you are a complete imbecile

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12048325

err...

ingesting 2 pounds of gludge right after a brutual but NOT 2"00'00 continous flat-out run, i'm sure will replenish relatively undiminished glycogen stores

not interested how you do it, but if i was noah, i'd prefer to get 1 pound slowly over 1/52

https://www.thieme-connect.com/ejournals/abstract/sportsmed/doi/10.1055/s-2002-33146)

eh...

"rest" for 1/52 doesn't mean sitting in dorm watching mtv, otherwise normal diet will pile on 3 - 4 pounds, which woud explain the slowing from physics point of view in itself

care to offer what a 135 pounder at 2'12.00 woud go to at 138 - 139 ???

without having to be even mentioned, "rest" means some

"leg-stretching" in 1/52 before

Cool. Regarding the 2 pounds of gludge, how is that much different from what Kenyans usually take? They take in a significant amount of carbs (especially high glycemic) a day (10.4g/kg versus 12g/kg in the aforementioned study)?http://www.ku.ac.ke/images/stories/docs/publications/enviromental_human/Food-and-Macronutrient-Intake.pdforhttp://www.active.com/running/Articles/Eating_practices_of_the_best_endurance_athletes_in_the_world.htm------Just curious (really - I'm just wondering if I'm missing something) - where are you getting 3-4 pounds from? You're telling me someone can gain 3-4 pounds from 2 days of rest as stated by the study (resting every third day of taper out of a 6 day taper)?

ventolin^3 wrote:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12048325

err...

ingesting 2 pounds of gludge right after a brutual but NOT 2"00'00 continous flat-out run, i'm sure will replenish relatively undiminished glycogen stores

not interested how you do it, but if i was noah, i'd prefer to get 1 pound slowly over 1/52

https://www.thieme-connect.com/ejournals/abstract/sportsmed/doi/10.1055/s-2002-33146)

eh...

"rest" for 1/52 doesn't mean sitting in dorm watching mtv, otherwise normal diet will pile on 3 - 4 pounds, which woud explain the slowing from physics point of view in itself

care to offer what a 135 pounder at 2'12.00 woud go to at 138 - 139 ???

without having to be even mentioned, "rest" means some

"leg-stretching" in 1/52 before

ventolin^3 wrote:

if you are preparing for a "proper" attempt, you take at least 1/52 off to rest/taper/carb load/etc

jennifer cruz wrote:

It's obvious you never competed with any degree of seriousness. You don't really have to carbo load for an attempt at the 1000 meter record. Is this some kind of a joke? Nor do you necessrily take any time off...

You are right that wentolin^0 was never a competitive runner. He is a very knowledgeable person on athletics, no question, but he occasionally makes statements like this that show just how clued-out he is on the realities of training and racing, and anything other than the statistics.

For example, here is is telling a board of runners who have (mostly) actually raced the 1500 that "you take at least a week off to rest and carbo load"? I laughed out loud. Now THAT is drivel, from the mouth of the drivel-caller himself. His attempted cover-up afterward is just embarrassing.