the 3000m world record blows my mind every time I watch it

Well said, Perspectivation! Always enjoy your posts.

A few more things to add:

Firstly, I said "Don't mind him" to mean "don't get yourself worked up by his inane, slanderous accusations," not "don't acknowledge him period." The plain and obvious evidence contradicts your implications and you need not be a source of upsetment for any reasonable track fan.

Secondly, I find it laughable that you (enerbit) contend that Ritz sucks at the marathon (and by reasonable association, half-marathon) distance. When was the last time you placed 9th in the Olympics? Or better yet, what about Ritz's bronze at the World Half-Marathon Championships? Yes, Ritz's AR 5000m was a fantastic result, but he was beginning to get injured and what little remained of the track season off. Since then, he has had his stellar WHMC result, and has been working to remain uninjured. I'm pretty sure Alberto and Dathan know what's best for Dathan.

Regarding your other accusations, Teg was, as pointed out, injured this season. Don't you worry - he'll be back and stronger than ever in the next coming seasons and will demonstrate the consistency you're looking for - although really, I don't see how he hasn't already proven himself to you. Consider this:

High school: High placing at foot locker, High placing at WJC

College: Consistently high placer in NCAA XC and NCAA track

On the pro circuit: Multiple great 5000m's (13:07, 13:04, 12:58) including a 4th at Worlds, a 7:34, 7:35 and 7:37 3000m to his credit, 8:07 2 mile at PRE (American record), a bunch of 1500m's to demonstrate his speed and range including a 3:34 and a 3:34... I'm not sure what else you want.

Chris had demonstrated his potential early on with his outstanding Footlocker win in 2002, an extremely solid senior track season, followed by multiple NCAA 5000m wins. He'd shown that he was top competitor by defeating who he raced against but never really got into fast races. In spite of that, he had a solid 13:12 to his name and didn't adjust very well initially to the new level at the pro circuit. However, after a number of years of solid training and racing, he has gotten his head together and figured out what it takes to compete with the best of the best, and has begun to put together a track resume with times he has always been capable of. He is now demonstrating that he can race consistently well and quickly.

I'm sorry if you can't see these facts, but you can continue being bitter and skeptical about athletes if you like - it's no cause for me to get upset. However, when you make doping accusations against runners without evidence, I am most certainly going to call you out as a troll and as someone who does not understand a natural track progression.

Sentence early on should read *took what little remained...

Wow, just wow. Good job both you guys.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Letsrun the place that accuses Russian, Moroccan, Chinese, Spanish, Kenyan, Ethiopian individuals and a certain American cyclist of doping on a daily basis without any evidence? Why so touchy when the subject of these accusations is a US white boy or girl? So given the cesspool environment in which I post, I really don't care if you think I'm sullying anybody's name, even if you know these people personally or what not. Shit, Armstrong has a family too. So does Komen.

The fact remains:

Ritz was a typical top tier US runner until 2009 happened.

Teg was a typical top tier US runner until 2009 happened.

Solinsky was a typical top tier US runner until 2010 happened.

Rupp was a typical top tier US runner until 2010 happened.

4 jackpot payouts. Do you know what happens when a slot machine pays out 4 times in a week in Las Vegas? Trick question, even if it pays out twice in one week the casino gets the swat team involved.

Listen, I'm sorry if I came off as acidic, as you really seem like a decent guy - but I am sad you feel the way you do, so hard set in your conviction that the US's top runners are doping.

Honestly, just because the majority on letsrun are critical of all those people does not mean this poster is, or all posters are. Personally, I am fascinated by our great sport and am excited when its limits are pushed, no matter who the racer! The fact that I am an American and that the racers you have mentioned have nothing to do with it, although I am admittedly partial to the success of Americans for obvious reasons.

I don't mean to come off as some sort of holy crusader. I don't think it's my job to protect the names of high profile runners, nor do I even want to begin to pretend I know them personally. But I do like to weigh in on doping accusations because as much as you might think I have my head in the sand, I'd like to think runners aren't doping until they're caught or they have hard evidence against them. Since you raised doping accusations and I believe there is evidence that supports the contrary argument, I posted it. That is just my perspective and you are obviously entitled to ignore it or view it with disdain as you likely have and will continue to do.

Red fox wrote:

but I am sad you feel the way you do, so hard set in your conviction that the US's top runners are doping.

.

Why would that make you sad? Is it sad to think of all the people who think the chinese women were doping? How about the Russsian women? If someone accuses these groups does it really take away from their enjoyment of track and field?

I remember seeing Aouita break Henry Rono's 3000m record of 7:32 in 1989 becoming the first to break 7:30.

The announcer was great.

The announcer went something like this:

"The crowd rises as the record beckons for the magical little Morroccan! Can he get it! Will he get it! 11 years the record stood on this track but no more!" (and he said "no more" at the exact time Auoita croosed the line in 7:29)

After that race Aouita concurrently held the World Record in the 1500, 2000, 3000, 2 mile and 5,000 and had an Olympic medal at 800 (plus gold at 5000) and one year where he ranked #1 in the world at 10,000.

Define typical top tier.

All four of those runners did things that are exceptional compared to a "typical top tier" runner.

I'd say typical top tier would be a guy like Tim Nelson.

Footlocker champs are not "typical top tier" and neither are AJR holders.

EPO Era

7:20.67 Daniel Komen KEN 17/05/1976 1 Rieti 01/09/1996

7:23.09 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14/09/1974 1 Bruxelles 03/09/1999

7:25.02 Ali Saïdi-Sief ALG 15/03/1978 1 Monaco 18/08/2000

7:25.09 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18/04/1973 1 Bruxelles 28/08/1998

7:25.11 Noureddine Morceli ALG 28/02/1970 1 Monaco 02/08/1994

7:25.16 Daniel Komen 1 Monaco 10/08/1996

7:25.54 Haile Gebrselassie 1 Monaco 08/08/1998

7:25.87 Daniel Komen 1 Bruxelles 23/08/1996

7:26.02 Haile Gebrselassie 1 Bruxelles 22/08/1997

7:26.03 Haile Gebrselassie 1 Helsinki 10/06/1999

7:26.62 Mohammed Mourhit BEL 10/10/1970 2 Monaco 18/08/2000

7:27.18 Moses Kiptanui KEN 01/10/1970 1 Monaco 25/07/1995

7:27.42 Haile Gebrselassie 1 Oslo 09/07/1998

7:27.50 Noureddine Morceli 1 Bruxelles 25/08/1995

7:27.59 Luke Kipkosgei KEN 27/11/1975 2 Monaco 08/08/1998

Not-EPO Era

7:25.79 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13/06/1982 1 Stockholm 07/08/2007

7:26.69 Kenenisa Bekele 1 Sheffield 15/07/2007

Seems suspicious. Also not saying all of these guys took EPO, but this seems to suggest a good chunk of them may have, particularly Komen.

Kenyans use EPO, Americans long distance runners are just pure talent. Kenyans are rough runners, Americans are smooth runners with perfect form. Kenyans don't train much, Americans put in all the hardwork day in and day out.

Forgive my ignorance, but what happened to Komen? No medals? Why did his career fizzle out?

"The crowd rises as the record beckons for the magical little Morroccan! Can he get it! Will he get it! 11 years the record stood on this track but no more!" (and he said "no more" at the exact time Auoita croosed the line in 7:29)"

toro, GREAT memory. i saw the broadcast that evening on tv, and watched it on vcr tape probably 1000 times. love it!

oh yeah, and the announcer sounded like robin leach...

Mr. Xeno wrote:

Forgive my ignorance, but what happened to Komen? No medals? Why did his career fizzle out?

I'm a little rusty on the details, but...

He didn't get a medal because he was not selected for the olympic team by Kenya. He was obviously pissed off about that stupid decision and thus ran his 3000m world record OFF OF PURE HATE.

Not too long after that, he got injured in a car wreck. Those injuries kept him from running well ever again.

Everyone focuses on Komen's 3k as one of the greatest distance records on the books, which it is, but Hicham's 2k WR is often overlooked. I think that 2k in 4:44.79 is equally as good if not better.... I'm not sure what the splits were, but that's an average of 56.8 per lap. That puts him at crossing the 1600m in 3:48ish and then running another lap! That's sick!

trackprod wrote:

I'm not sure what the splits were, but that's an average of 56.8 per lap.

400m - 56.70

800m - 58.24 (1:54.94)

1200m - 57.27 (2:52.21)

1600m - 57.39 (3:49.60)

2000m - 55.19 (4:44.79) Last 1k in 2:21.01!

Amazing!

Not too long after that, he got injured in a car wreck. Those injuries kept him from running well ever again.

duckshirt wrote:

Not too long after that, he got injured in a car wreck. Those injuries kept him from running well ever again.

Are you sure you aren't thinking of Noah Ngeny? If not, this story seems to happen a lot to Kenyans.

Alot=2 times?

Yes, Kenyan roads are dangerous.

sometime late in '90s he lost an early season road or xc race which i saw on tv ( i'm not sure who beat him ) but he looked "shot" & i wondered then if his career was over

it was...

Dayum! wrote:

One of the greatest runs we'll ever see. His form is perfect, total relaxation. It's crazy to think that no one else on the planet would be with 20 metres of him if they ran in the race. It's one of the best bits of pacemaking you'll ever see too. John Kosgei ran amazing just to get to 2k!!

I do think Komen was a bit freak though. If you watch most of his races he has pretty much no kick whatsoever. But I don't think there's ever been a guy so relaxed at 58-60 second pace. Watch his 5k record too for more perfection.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8atqt-o5-Y

- sublime.

Thanks for that link. I was there that night--it was truly an amazing race. This came only a week after Komen was beaten by Geb in Zurich in a new WR of 12:41, so Komen was really going for revenge to take the record away. It's true that Komen didn't have much acceleration at the end--what he had was this amazing sense of relentlessness--of being able to grind out an absolutely killing pace. Tergat also broke Geb's 10,000 record that night. It was a memorable night...