McGurk wrote:
And on wealth/property, how does it originate? Theft, war, and slavery. You can only "earn" such within the organization of society which has determine rules to govern the group's wealth that was originally obtained by theft, war and slavery. Explain how you can logically obtain anything without first taking........you can't avoid it........the problem with people today is that they no longer respect that; they think they have some God given right to eveything in their possession.
A) You claim that all property originates from theft, war, or slavery. In that case, it means it must have belonged to someone else in order to be "stolen." Do you mean to suggest that before that, it belonged to someone else, and before that someone else... and so on and so forth, for an infinitely long period of time? Are you suggesting that man has been around for infinity and that man originally came into existence having every resource in their possession? That's pretty absurd. Some property, at some point in time, was garnered through means other than the three aforementioned. I won't try to argue about what property, or when, but it's clear that before man "owned" property, it was free to claim. That property, legitimately owned, is still being traded, so the claim that all property is illegitimate is absurd.
B) Not everything in the world is owned by somebody else. If I go out to sea and catch a fish, are you going to claim that I have stolen said fish? What if I go into lands where there is no functional territorial claim and pick berries, and then sell them. Can you please tell me who I stole them from?
C) Not all wealth is simply traded. Wealth can also be created. If I think of an idea, such as a machine to improve the efficiency of some process or industry, I could certainly sell that idea to somebody. Who did I steal that idea from? Ideas and technology which increase efficiency and productivity are not simply traded, they are created, and by increasing efficiency they increase the total wealth of a society (in truth, the total wealth of mankind, as they do not diminish the wealth of any other society). Thus, wealth is CREATED, not just traded.
As an aside, even if one man stole property, that theft does not taint all of those with whom he trades that property down the road as though they had also stolen it. That is like claiming that a shopkeeper is a criminal for accepting in payment a dollar which was stolen by a pickpocket. How much do you want to bet that one or more of the bills which has passed through your hands in your life did, at one point, "belong" to a criminal, and be used in some sort of illegal pursuit? Do you want to claim that you are now an associate of that crime? This is also absurd.
Finally, even if all of your assertions were true (which, as per the above, I do not believe to be the case), it would still not justify your anti-wealthy attitude and previous statements. You act as though the wealthy are criminals, while the non-wealthy are not, but if all property is the result of theft (as you assert), then they are all criminals, and your vehemance towards the rich only cannot be justified.