Ah...words from the Man himself.
Happy Christmas Mr W.
Ah...words from the Man himself.
Happy Christmas Mr W.
I don't think Whitlock would refer to himself as the 'age group marvel' - reads like someone else posted in Ed's name.
Ghost in Saudi
ghost wrote: I don't think Whitlock would refer to himself as the 'age group marvel' - reads like someone else posted in Ed's name.He was quoting the previous post.
as always really appreciate your time to post info on your training ideas
would like to see some ideas for the average runner, eg. the 36min 10ker trying to get to 33min or the 32min 10ker trying to geting sub 30min, should they be using the same philosophy as your elite runners, I realize that your runners could easily run the above times on just years of easy mileage but how would training relate to the average runner
The modern system of preparation is based on specific intensity. So, for example, if you run 14:30 min for 5k (2:54 pace), you can improve similar to world class runners. You must however, train in correct way and make your progress.
You must increase intensity of easy training and make progress. For example, if during the first year you run workout like 5x2000 in 6:10 (3:05 pace=93% of intensity). During the next season, supposing that he can now run 14:10 (2:50 pace), he can use 5x2000 in 5:50 (2:55 pace=97% of intensity), and intervals at 90% of the race intensity have no meaning, except for incresing volume (for example 4x3000 in 9:15 if athlete can move to longer distances.
Easy and steady state runs must also improve in Renato's law of progression. For example, after 2 years of training, an athlete must make progress in all types of training. Easy runs, steady runs, tempo runs, fartlek runs, and repeat runs, they all must improve if athlete wants to make complete progress. If for example, athlete makes progress in repeats and tempo runs, but forgets to get faster on easy runs, steady runs, and fartlek runs, this athlete will make incomplete improvement. What does this mean? Incomplete improvement is based on improvement in one facet of training, but neglecting to improve in other areas of training. All levels of training must move in concert together as one, if an athlete wants complete improvement. With complete improvement comes many supercompensation benefits after a few years of training. Incomplete improvement will allow a runner to improve in small ways, but not much. This my friend is very important part of training.
Renato,
Thank you for your contributions, which as usual are illuminating and inspiring.
Here's my problem: I'd love to make improvement in every area of training. When I try to do that, I get tired, then I supercompensate and run well, and then I get injured. Sometimes I get injured first and the good performances never come. Many people here say that we should run our easy days very easy as a way of avoiding injury. Never have I had two good seasons in a row, building one floor of improvement on top of another.
My question is this: what, in your opinion, is the way for that 14:30 runner, or even a 16:30 runner, to avoid injury--while trying to improve in every facet of training? What signs should we look for?
Gimpy, it sounds like you are not following correct training plan for best results. When I hear young athletes talk about training they do, I listen very closely to words. The words I hear from you are "tired", "injured", "confused", and "unhappy". You must listen to my words clearly my friend. The biggest problem that you have is you do things in wrong order. How do I know this? Very simple. The words you use to describe your training give me picture of your training plan. Yes it is true that I don't know exactly what training you do. But trust me Gimpy, you do things wrong way.
Here is my advice. And other people give their advice, and you decide what you want to do. But as for Renato, here is my advice for Gimpy.
Take summer months, June, July, and August. For 8 weeks you do three types of runs. Long easy runs, long steady runs, long medium runs. I make this very simple. You know what these paces are. It is time to be simple. Build your kilometers each week. Start with many long easy runs, then progress to some long steady and long medium runs. In July add 8x100 meters two times per week. In August you add tempo runs one time per week, maybe 8k - 10k runs, also it is important that you add hill fartlek workouts in August one time per week. Everything else is long easy, long steady, and long medium runs. This three month cycle is very simple and easy. Why does Renato write workout plan for me that is not extreme, and complicated, and the same as he writes for his world class athletes? My friend, the reason is that the answer to your problem is to get simple, not complicated. Too many young athletes try to copy Shaheen or Kwalia workout plan. This my friend is very stupid. You need simple plan. You have simple plan. Now do it and stay healthy. This is not science that is molecular, it is common sense training. Gimpy my friend, when you get to 13:00 for 5k then we talk about rocket science training. But for now my friend, this will help you stay healthy.
Renato Canova wrote:
My friend, the reason is that the answer to your problem is to get simple, not complicated.
You need simple plan. You have simple plan. Now do it and stay healthy.
I like this. A simple plans works well for me.
Mr. Canova,
Thank you for your most unselfish advice. My questions are about the 8-10x100 meter runs twice per week that you have recommended during the aerobic phase of your training plan. As you probably know, Lydiard maintained that it was a "mistake" to do anaerobic training in the midst of the aerobic "base" phase.
With that being said:
Is is the aim of these runs to increase the efficiency of stride, mechanics, style, etc?
Do recommend your athletes take long recoveries between repetitions to so as to not raise the blood lactate level above and undesired level? Or do neglect this principle and have them immediately jog back to start and repeat so as to generate an anaerobic stimulus?
What intensity do you prescribe your athletes for the 8x100 runs?
Are these runs to be completed at an intense sprinting pace or merely relaxed "striding"?
Is the focus of these runs to focus on turning over the feet as quickly as possible rather than on generating a high speed?
Thank you in advance.
Post of the Year!
Thank you, Renato, I needed to read that brilliance.
KISS, especially in times of injury, burnout, or re-focus.
My one question, what are the KM for the following runs -
LONG EASY = ? KM
LONG STEADY = ? KM
LONG MEDIUM = ? KM
What is too much and what is too little training in this phase?
Thank you!
master tactician wrote:
My questions are about the 8-10x100 meter runs twice per week that you have recommended during the aerobic phase of your training plan. As you probably know, Lydiard maintained that it was a "mistake" to do anaerobic training in the midst of the aerobic "base" phase.
I don't speak for Canova, but 100m repetitions with sufficient recovery aren't the type of anaerobic training Lydiard advised against doing.
Besides, touching on all the energy systems throughout the year is good, so long as nothing is overdone.
Renato, it would be great if you were to write a book for all of us to read and learn from!
yupyupyup wrote:
Renato, it would be great if you were to write a book for all of us to read and learn from!
He's got one. You can buy it from the IAAF for about $8.
Bravo Renato! As a high school coach that tries to keep training simple and keep my athletes healthy at all times, I thank you for this advice. Too many young people today try to copy the training methods or workouts of the very best distance runners in the world. You have provided such great words of wisdom. Keep it simple and stay healthy. I can't thank you enough. Thanks again Renato!
Coach AJ wrote:
Too many young people today try to copy the training methods or workouts of the very best distance runners in the world.
I would find that shocking, if it were the case.
In any case, the methods would seem to be the same. The Kenyans and Ethiopians with their talent and years of active youth simply have them further along the process (or higher up the high rise, in following with Renato's analogy) allowing them (and necessitating them) to train at levels that others, lacking in that talent and aerobic foundation, would find suicidal.
Hi Renato,
Appreciate your insight and advice. If you have time to attend to this, I could use your advice and feedback. Question about progress and motivation. I'll start with a short summery of my training plan and history and then my problem and way I'm dealing with it.
Training plan:
Event:
5000 meters.
Races dates:
May-July
Philosophy: Slow and gradual titration of stress elements to improve pace tolerance, speed tolerance,( efficiency strength), training volume tolerance. Linear progress is planed and accommodations are made for setbacks, illness,or failure to adapt to demand of training.
Age: 45 with 30 yrs competitive running. Still compete as a masters runner.
Schedule:
M : Moderate aerobic Usually progression from jog to moderate. Never very hard, but fast.
Tues: Varies. Change made every 3 weeks to keep things fresh. Typically alternate flat 3 weeks hills 3 weeks of various length and intensities. AM: Usually short with 2- 3 miles progression with 1500 meters of 200s to 300s 800 meter pace typical with gradual lead in.
Wed. easy aerobic (recovery)with 100 to 150 strides
Thurs** This is constant: 6 800 meters. Recovery by heart rate. Times to recovery ( 120 bpm) are recorded and evaluated. ( The goal of Thursday is gradual increase of pace while seeing recovery stay the same or decrease. Variance of normal duration ( 20-30 sec ) usually 1minute to start 1:20 -50 by the end.
Friday: Day Off
Sat: Hard moderate steady.
Sunday Moderate or Easy depending on how tired.
After 6 weeks break)
After progressing for 4-5 months with gradual improvement in most elements volume, speed I have come to an impasse. While extremely motivated with 20+ weeks of progress in training pace and distances. From 20 mpw to now 50 and increasing. starting 800s from 3:20 to 2:45 with recovery staying fairly constant with normal deviations, one week ago I got ready for my Thursday session that I am typically up for. I felt uninspired and quit in the middle of the 4th. Just couldn't deal with it.
Last week,cut the volume by 1/3. With consult with a coach, decided to run again next week 800s at a pace I was sure to finish. 3 minutes with the last 3 as I felt( Last one was fast). I feel good overall ( fresh etc.) It's just my enthusiasm does go away at times and I feel so damn tired.
So I wonder, what to do during preparation when I lose my enthusiasm to the point of quitting, feeling tired, depressed and unmotivated. BTW Recovery was normal on that Thursday. It was my mind that said no more.
How should I work through these issues as they come up? I love feedback and I also want to enjoy the process. Kind of like being tough because you can. I think of my plan like a building, one brick at a time, but I need the enthusiasm to continue and I need to continue to finish and now I need advice to build back the momentum that I have had now and in the future if and when I have this occur on the path.
Thanks for your time to read this.
Mike
on the runs wrote:
He's got one. You can buy it from the IAAF for about $8.
Has it been updated though.
Renato, what exactly are hill fartleks? Are they just hill repeats with quick jog down recovery?
We call hill fartlek a particular interpretation of long run on hilly courses. I suggest my athletes to "sprint" when they attack a hill going up, and to relax going down.
This for 2 reasons :
a) using high level of effort running uphill is the best way for increasing the strength endurance
b) running many times up and down can enhance the risk of knee injuries, due to the compression developed running down.
Personally, I never had problems with my athletes running uphill, many times I found problems when they run downhill.
Renato;
I have an athlete in Eldoret kenya that i would like request you to take into your stable.If it is okey with you,can i tell him to come and see you at Kerio Valley Hotel i.e where you are normally based in kenya.I reckon he would fit in weel with your athletes.