Isn't IVY League Essentially D-2 Parading as D-1

In other words, it would take the entire Ivy Conference to put a team out there good enough to win the RMAC

You didn't make it clear whether you were referring only to XC or XC/Track, so I will throw this out:

From what I remember (and I don't have the time or interest to assemble facts), Cornell Track and Field competes very competitively in head-to-head dual meet competition against the very top Division-I teams. We clearly would not win NCAA D-I Outdoor Nationals, since that meet's scoring is weighted toward teams with a few superstars; however in a dual meet we would do very well.

Question: are there any D-II track teams that would beat CU Track? Off the top of my head I would have to seriously doubt it.

someone earlier wrote that HEPS is better than the ACC. Wrong.

Year in and out the ACC places more teams, and higher at NCAA XC.

On average the ivies are about equal to duke..

wizardstaff wrote:

On average the ivies are about equal to duke..

Ivy men are? Really?

Abilene Christian top 2/3 guys Season Bests per D2 list side by side with Cornell's per Trackshark ranked list:

100-

10.49 10.66 8-1 ACU

10.59 10.68

200-

21.24 21.50 9-0 ACU

21.37 21.77

21.43 21.81

400-

46.24 46.98 6-3 ACU

47.32 47.46

800-

1:49.33 1:50.44 6-3 ACU

1:51.38 ?

1500-

3:46.53 3:46.24 5-4 CU

3:48.80 3:49.10

5000-

14:08.93 14:35.10 9-0 ACU

14:12.33 14:34.58

14:17.58

14:23.54

10000-

29:41.73 29:48 5-4 CU

29:47.78 30:10

110H:

13.92 13.79 5-4 CU

13.95 14.19

14.16

400H:

51.75 51.04 8-1 CU

51.75 51.64

Steeple:

8:40.46 9:06.36 5-3 ACU

4x1:

40.09 40.92 5-0 ACU

4x4:

3:08.80 3:11.22 5-0 ACU

PV:

5.22 4.95 9-0 ACU

5.21 4.85

5.09 4.65

LJ:

7.47 7.42 5-4 ACU

7.33

TJ:

16.31 16.53 6-3 CU

15.30 15.43

SP:

16.25 16.90 5-3 CU

DT:

56.12 52.09 8-1 ACU

54.80 47.25

HT:

56.89 59.23 5-3 CU

Decath:

7559 6005 8-1 ACU

7010

Just to show a D2 team could beat CU in a dual meet format

I know I'm missing some events/ likely performances plus time/mark comparisons are imperfect. Still, ACU wins by 50 going by that.

In_Ithaca wrote:

I told rojo I thought it was really lame that they continue to belittle other meets by calling them baby nationals. That being said, the heps is a really tough conference. I don't think anyone would argue that its tougher than any of the majors but it hold it own against anyone else. Is there really a d2 conference meet that is as tough as the heps? I'd be shocked if there is.

Obv, there are great runners in d2. I have a ton of respect for adams state and western. I don't think the guys that have a clue are the ones that are talking trash in this thread...

RMAC has both ASC and WSC plus Mines.

jhgd wrote:

I wanted to compete at a higher level.

Bullshit.

jhgd wrote:

I didnt apply. I wanted to compete at a higher level.

And what are you doing now?

In a dual meet form it would be a close competition between ACU and Cornell and would be fun to watch. For the sake of comparison, here are the team scores at DII nationals:

1) Abilene Christian 108.50

2) St Augustine's 102

3) Ashland 55

4) Adams State 51

5) Lincoln 46

ACU is an elite team. It was not the point of your post, but the fact that the best team in DII would most likely beat Cornell in a dual meet only indicates that ACU is a good track program.

Is this the 3rd thread like this in as many months or did I miss a few?

Look at the Griak results. If one D-2 school being better than you is qualification to be dropped to D-2, there would only be about 12 D-1 programs left.

I'm sorry you got passed over in your job application for an ivy leaguer though.

A few notes:

--trying to compare DI National times to the D2 national times on that Slippery Rock course under the conditions the race was run is ridiculous. It was a strength course start to finish, directly in contrast to D1 venue.

--D2 has a wide discrepency between its performers both on national, regional, and conference-wide basis.

--i think its a valid argument that the RMAC in D2 is as strong as most (maybe or maybe not than the Ivy League specifically) D1 conferences based on head to head in season matchups and, really, basic inference and common sense.

Not including the elite, top programs, there typically is not as much difference between D1, D2, and as most people would assume. At least in some NCAA sports, XC/track included.

I'm old enough to remember when the best XC/track team in America in any division was Blinn College in Brenham, TX.

Hard as that is to believe.

The fact of the matter is that Cornell wouldn't finish in the top 5 at "baby nationals". The brothers Johnson need to put that term to rest, because they are insulting Rojo's team. It would be even worse in Cornell is a fully funded team. Anyone know if they are? I know for sure that most DII schools only get about half of the scholarship money that their DI counterparts get. Not that they are not allowed more, they just can't afford it. Wow, now that I think about it, it's sad if a fully funded DI school loses to a DII school.

jhgd wrote:

I could have gone to any Ivy league school I wanted to actually.

Come on people, parading? How about parodying? You sure your verbal score didn't keep you out of Ivy League?

The Insider wrote:

[if] Cornell is a fully funded team. Anyone know if they are? I know for sure that most DII schools only get about half of the scholarship money that their DI counterparts get. Not that they are not allowed more, they just can't afford it. Wow, now that I think about it, it's sad if a fully funded DI school loses to a DII school.

Ya... with all that athletic scholarship money the Ivies give out...

So, if memory serves, our little baby division III cross country team used to regularly beat the snot out of many division II and III teams at the New England Open Championships (Ivies didn't show, same weekend as Heps, back in the early to mid '90s). University of New Hampshire, University of Maine, University of Vermont, Northeastern, and others were frequent victims of a slew of D III schools (Brandies, Bowdoin, Williams, Bates, Colby, depending on the year). It's all about the runner and the program - D I, II, III don't mean that much until you get to the really big boys (top 20 D I teams), and then 25 - 40 % of your runners are imports.

tennisball wrote:

I think everyone knows that while there is "Baby Nationals", there are "Baby Conferences" as well. In many cases the Ivy League fits into this category. This year Ivy runners were 42'nd(35), 53'rd(44), 61'st(51), 79'th(63), 84'th(66), 121'st. 259 points, which would place the Ivy League 5'th in the country if scored as a team. Baby Conference indeed.

waaahhhhhhhhh!!!!!! do you need your bottle? did you lose your rattle? you're crying like a... like a... baby!

hey, everyone! tennisball is a BABY POSTER!

actually your post gives me more respect for the ivy runners than i had before. considering none of those guys get scholarships, they can't take free 5th years, they're all American because there isn't any foreign aid in the ivies, and they're all at least decently smart, getting 5th in the country as a group is awesome!

so not only are you a BABY, you're not very convincing!

spell check wrote:

jhgd wrote:

I could have gone to any Ivy league school I wanted to actually.

Come on people, parading? How about parodying? You sure your verbal score didn't keep you out of Ivy League?

I think the word the OP was looking for was "masquerading."