2022 was an odd year for jakob. i have to wonder if the slowdown in the 1500/mile was because it was the first time since 2019 that he had to focus on 1500 and 5000, as there was not a world championship focus in 20 or 21. And then by 23 he had built up the strength to effectively train for both events.
or maybe he just got in a bunch of slow races in that year. or maybe he hadn't adjusted to life without gjert.
i did think he came out in 23, noticeably thinner than in the past.
Wasn't that the year they split from Gjert? That must have been a hugely disruptive period for Jakob.
I wasn’t going to bring up Gjert because that’s a sensitive issue, but since you guys did, I will comment.
The split from Gjert adds to my suspicion for two reasons. One, Gjert is a man of principle and a strict father who would never allow his sons to take PEDs. With Gjert no longer around to monitor his activities, Jakob had the freedom to do whatever he wants. It’s like when a kid goes off to college.
Two, Jakob struggled in his first season without Gjert. He failed to improve, and he lost the 2022 1500 championship race after winning the Olympics the year before. He probably heard the murmurs on online discussion boards and social media that he was not as good without his father. Being as egotistical as he is, I can imagine him feeling so desperate to show everyone that he can be great without Gjert that he decided to start doping in preparation for the 2023 season.
Jakob has been dominant compared to his competitors continuously since the age of 11. Almost without interruption, even the junior version understandably struggled to beat Cheruiyot. A steady rise from a young age, with such good test results at a young age that a research team from the University of Stavanger could hardly believe what they saw. This essentially says everything about the fact that it is the talent and the training regimen that are the foundation for the performances. Not doping.
Wasn't that the year they split from Gjert? That must have been a hugely disruptive period for Jakob.
I wasn’t going to bring up Gjert because that’s a sensitive issue, but since you guys did, I will comment.
The split from Gjert adds to my suspicion for two reasons. One, Gjert is a man of principle and a strict father who would never allow his sons to take PEDs. With Gjert no longer around to monitor his activities, Jakob had the freedom to do whatever he wants. It’s like when a kid goes off to college.
Two, Jakob struggled in his first season without Gjert. He failed to improve, and he lost the 2022 1500 championship race after winning the Olympics the year before. He probably heard the murmurs on online discussion boards and social media that he was not as good without his father. Being as egotistical as he is, I can imagine him feeling so desperate to show everyone that he can be great without Gjert that he decided to start doping in preparation for the 2023 season.
You can’t help but laugh. Jakob has been accused of doping in here for years. Suddenly, Ingebrigtsen has built the entire foundation as a clean athlete, resulting in fantastic performances. This was unimaginable to people like you before. Talk about cherry-picking the argument.
Wasn't that the year they split from Gjert? That must have been a hugely disruptive period for Jakob.
I wasn’t going to bring up Gjert because that’s a sensitive issue, but since you guys did, I will comment.
The split from Gjert adds to my suspicion for two reasons. One, Gjert is a man of principle and a strict father who would never allow his sons to take PEDs. With Gjert no longer around to monitor his activities, Jakob had the freedom to do whatever he wants. It’s like when a kid goes off to college.
Two, Jakob struggled in his first season without Gjert. He failed to improve, and he lost the 2022 1500 championship race after winning the Olympics the year before. He probably heard the murmurs on online discussion boards and social media that he was not as good without his father. Being as egotistical as he is, I can imagine him feeling so desperate to show everyone that he can be great without Gjert that he decided to start doping in preparation for the 2023 season.
I doubt gjert is a man of principle. He's always come across as a control freak,and meglomaniac, and as shady as it gets. As for him not allowing his sons to take PED''s um........i dont agree.
Returned a positive EPO test. Got off on the B sample. But juiced, as anyone was - is - in the 3:26 territory. Only to running fans are the fastest clean athletes faster than the best doped athletes.
So, you can't show it. Cool. You're an idiot.
But you can't see doping when it stares you in the face. It's through the sport but never with the best, right?
Wasn't that the year they split from Gjert? That must have been a hugely disruptive period for Jakob.
I wasn’t going to bring up Gjert because that’s a sensitive issue, but since you guys did, I will comment.
The split from Gjert adds to my suspicion for two reasons. One, Gjert is a man of principle and a strict father who would never allow his sons to take PEDs. With Gjert no longer around to monitor his activities, Jakob had the freedom to do whatever he wants. It’s like when a kid goes off to college.
Two, Jakob struggled in his first season without Gjert. He failed to improve, and he lost the 2022 1500 championship race after winning the Olympics the year before. He probably heard the murmurs on online discussion boards and social media that he was not as good without his father. Being as egotistical as he is, I can imagine him feeling so desperate to show everyone that he can be great without Gjert that he decided to start doping in preparation for the 2023 season.
The "man of principle" faces criminal charges for assaulting a family member. So what "principle" is that?
Jakob has been dominant compared to his competitors continuously since the age of 11. Almost without interruption, even the junior version understandably struggled to beat Cheruiyot. A steady rise from a young age, with such good test results at a young age that a research team from the University of Stavanger could hardly believe what they saw. This essentially says everything about the fact that it is the talent and the training regimen that are the foundation for the performances. Not doping.
The naive belief here that natural talent doesn't dope.
Show me Lagat's suspension for doping. Oh, you can't.
Returned a positive EPO test. Got off on the B sample. But juiced, as anyone was - is - in the 3:26 territory. Only to running fans are the fastest clean athletes faster than the best doped athletes.
No, cyclists are even more willfully ignorant. Jonas Vingegaard can have a major crash in March / April, be off the bike a long time and come back to the "toughest race in the world" and is immediately in contention for the win. The peloton is setting all time marks in every race, but hey, at least their cleaner than all the cheaters from the past!
Jakob has been dominant compared to his competitors continuously since the age of 11. Almost without interruption, even the junior version understandably struggled to beat Cheruiyot. A steady rise from a young age, with such good test results at a young age that a research team from the University of Stavanger could hardly believe what they saw. This essentially says everything about the fact that it is the talent and the training regimen that are the foundation for the performances. Not doping.
The naive belief here that natural talent doesn't dope.
It's through the sport but never with the best, right?
"It's through the sport, and always with the best, without exception" is so meaningless that it approaches an intellectual disaster when it runs on autopilot year after year without a hint of reflection.
You can't know, even though the static probability is sky-high. Therefore, the empty accusations are completely meaningless.
Dont post this kind of threads. Generally is a bad thing to do predictions (the future is not an exact science). But Jakob could very well beat the WR maybe lower than 3:25:50 (I have no idea for sure).
There are a lot of factors that lead to this:
- Training from young age under a good environment.
It's through the sport but never with the best, right?
"It's through the sport, and always with the best, without exception" is so meaningless that it approaches an intellectual disaster when it runs on autopilot year after year without a hint of reflection.
You can't know, even though the static probability is sky-high. Therefore, the empty accusations are completely meaningless.
Saying it is with the best "without exception" (who said that?) is not the same as saying "it is never with the best". Probability suggests it is - as you acknowledge.
There's that hilarious thread noting every instance of 'he'll never improve' from 2014-2022. Someone should go in and update for the last couple of years.
Thought it would be fun to take a deep dive into the forums and see how letsrun has reacted to Jakob over time, particularly in his younger years. I've included the first ever posts on him, and any positive or negative feedba...
"It's through the sport, and always with the best, without exception" is so meaningless that it approaches an intellectual disaster when it runs on autopilot year after year without a hint of reflection.
You can't know, even though the static probability is sky-high. Therefore, the empty accusations are completely meaningless.
Saying it is with the best "without exception" (who said that?) is not the same as saying "it is never with the best". Probability suggests it is - as you acknowledge.
Statistics are probability in its simplest form. An indication that doesnt contribute to a single fact on an individual level, but at the same time, a highly useful tool when zooming out.
Your argumentation follows on autopilot. The threshold of evaluation revolves solely around results and nothing else is deemed relevant noise. Innocent until proven otherwise carries zero weight. The same applies to the degree of consistent performances and natural progression, national circumstances, as well as other individual differences from case to case. Intellectual laziness that dumbens the debate. Just the same repetitive cycle over and over again.
Dont post this kind of threads. Generally is a bad thing to do predictions (the future is not an exact science). But Jakob could very well beat the WR maybe lower than 3:25:50 (I have no idea for sure).
There are a lot of factors that lead to this:
- Training from young age under a good environment.
- New training methods.
- New technologies (shoes, tracks, ..)
I wonder what a 3:25.9 would look like as far as splits. Does he go harder the last 300, or does he need a faster split at 1200? I would think a bit quicker at 1200
Statistics are probability in its simplest form. An indication that doesnt contribute to a single fact on an individual level, but at the same time, a highly useful tool when zooming out.
Your argumentation follows on autopilot. The threshold of evaluation revolves solely around results and nothing else is deemed relevant noise. Innocent until proven otherwise carries zero weight. The same applies to the degree of consistent performances and natural progression, national circumstances, as well as other individual differences from case to case. Intellectual laziness that dumbens the debate. Just the same repetitive cycle over and over again.
I totally agree. A ton of the doping allegations on these boards rely solely on time progressions, which is incredibly simplistic (to say the least). Yes, of course a shocking drop in time can raise eyebrows, but there are so many other factors involved that to go from "great PR" to "obvious doper" is annoying, silly, and disrespectful.
I have no idea whether Jakob is doping or not. But I'm not going to assume the worst of people just because they are really fast. If someone has some evidence beyond the circumstantial "he's faster than what we've seen recently," I'll look at it with an open mind. Until then, please stop the "Jakob is obviously doping" comments/threads. It makes it harder for the rest of us to enjoy going on these forums.
I wasn’t going to bring up Gjert because that’s a sensitive issue, but since you guys did, I will comment.
The split from Gjert adds to my suspicion for two reasons. One, Gjert is a man of principle and a strict father who would never allow his sons to take PEDs. With Gjert no longer around to monitor his activities, Jakob had the freedom to do whatever he wants. It’s like when a kid goes off to college.
Two, Jakob struggled in his first season without Gjert. He failed to improve, and he lost the 2022 1500 championship race after winning the Olympics the year before. He probably heard the murmurs on online discussion boards and social media that he was not as good without his father. Being as egotistical as he is, I can imagine him feeling so desperate to show everyone that he can be great without Gjert that he decided to start doping in preparation for the 2023 season.
The "man of principle" faces criminal charges for assaulting a family member. So what "principle" is that?
Gjert may be a disciplinarian, but he doesn’t seem like a cheater.
Jakob, on the other hand, fits the profile of a cheater. He has a rebellious spirit and doesn’t respect authority. And he has a huge ego that can’t handle losing.
I wasn’t going to bring up Gjert because that’s a sensitive issue, but since you guys did, I will comment.
The split from Gjert adds to my suspicion for two reasons. One, Gjert is a man of principle and a strict father who would never allow his sons to take PEDs. With Gjert no longer around to monitor his activities, Jakob had the freedom to do whatever he wants. It’s like when a kid goes off to college.
Two, Jakob struggled in his first season without Gjert. He failed to improve, and he lost the 2022 1500 championship race after winning the Olympics the year before. He probably heard the murmurs on online discussion boards and social media that he was not as good without his father. Being as egotistical as he is, I can imagine him feeling so desperate to show everyone that he can be great without Gjert that he decided to start doping in preparation for the 2023 season.
You can’t help but laugh. Jakob has been accused of doping in here for years. Suddenly, Ingebrigtsen has built the entire foundation as a clean athlete, resulting in fantastic performances. This was unimaginable to people like you before. Talk about cherry-picking the argument.
What do you mean “people like you.” You don’t know me. I was one of the people who used to be on Jakob’s side. I was a big fan. But not anymore. He’s too sus.
I wasn’t going to bring up Gjert because that’s a sensitive issue, but since you guys did, I will comment.
The split from Gjert adds to my suspicion for two reasons. One, Gjert is a man of principle and a strict father who would never allow his sons to take PEDs. With Gjert no longer around to monitor his activities, Jakob had the freedom to do whatever he wants. It’s like when a kid goes off to college.
Two, Jakob struggled in his first season without Gjert. He failed to improve, and he lost the 2022 1500 championship race after winning the Olympics the year before. He probably heard the murmurs on online discussion boards and social media that he was not as good without his father. Being as egotistical as he is, I can imagine him feeling so desperate to show everyone that he can be great without Gjert that he decided to start doping in preparation for the 2023 season.
You have a good imagination, but it’s a little fluffy…
After the break with Gjert Jakob got in really good shape -he f.ex set a new WR indoors in the 1500m. But then he got Covid (and also an injury I believe) and struggled quite a long time. And in 2022 he clearly was the best in the world, for the first time (aside of WC 1500m), and I think it’s wrong to hold the 2021 season (under Gjert) as so much better -Jakob had a lucky pb in the Olympics (0.36 sec) because of Cheruiyot’s pacing. So I don’t think it was about Gjert or a specially bad 2022 season (he won WC 5000m and got a new mile pb). And Jakob also suffered set backs in 2019 -why not start the doping then? (You knowing that Gjert is anti-doping and Jakob pro dope seems totally fictional..).