Why has the 800m suddenly improved?

I think what's weird is we've seen the way PEDs impacted both the sprints and distances in the 80s/90s but I don't feel the same thing happened in the 800 (on the men's side, at least). Seb Coe's two world records from 1979 and 1981 were pretty much untouchable except for a prime Joachim Cruz in 1984. We know for a fact that during that time people would've had access to a plethora of anabolics and EPO, yet that still only produced guys in the 1:43s.

I'm not going to say that Coe was 100% clean but you would think that a whole generation of athletes with more advanced doping would be able to run faster than some 5'9" British miler. It wasn't until Kipketer came along that the times really moved forward but, again, it was really just him, while guys stuck around 1:43s and occasional 1:42s. When I checked WA's 800m performance list, 1:43.00 is still the 110th performance of all time. The same ranked performance list on the 1500 side is Cram's 3:29.67 WR from 1985. I'm not sure if the 800 has just been incredibly lucky to have some truly groundbreaking performances from the likes of Coe, Snell, Rudisha, and Kipketer (not to mention a few others who didn't get the WR) or what is going on but the staying power of some of these times, despite more prevalent doping, equipment advancements, and the general progression of training is still staggering to me. I'll reiterate again, Steve Cram's 1985 WR 1500 is 110th on the all time performance list, while Coe's world record 800 set 4 years earlier is still 10th.

but weren't people saying that super spikes are not an advantage in anything less than a 1500?

I'm skeptical that it's creatine coming back. For example, Kessler ran 1:43.6 and I would be very surprised if he was taking creatine - the water weight increase would probably offset the speed improvements for the 1500, which is his main event. I tried taking creatine for a mid-d block and I think it made a material positive difference for 800, but was neutral or detrimental for the 1500. I'd expect pure 800 runners to have been on it for a while, not discovering it this year.

Also sodium bicarbonate (eg maurten's new formula) helps buffer lactate, and new methods can make you not sht your pants, so that could be part as well.

Or it's just random chance, because there's not *that* many people at the top so small variations will look larger even if there's nothing substantially different.

I'd like an explanation for that. Why would an event that is 60/40 aerobic/anaerobic NOT be affected?

I don't have one but I wasn't really making that claim. One of the arguments was that no one has come close to the world record in the 1500 so the shoes are not helping anything from the 1500 and under.

i love how all the current athletes are down-voting you for presenting data. DATA.

Got it. I would ask those people the same question. If the shoes are helping in events that are 90%+ aerobic, are you (the claimant) saying that they aren't aiding the aerobic component of the 800 and 1500? Those are definitely aerobic events. Now, might super spikes provide a smaller percent benefit in these events than in a more aerobic event? Sure. That may very well be what we are seeing.

Top marks in any event are tough to beat, so just getting a small improvement doesn't mean that an above average elite will be able to approach all time top times. It may allow more people to approach better times, though.

BUMP!

Some of the takes in this thread are ridiculous. It took the 800m guys four years to learn how to use the spikes? What? New spikes this year are helping the 800? Creatine? I don’t think creatine would help or hurt. The weight gain that comes with creatine only happens if you load it. If you’re just taking like 5g a day and not doing the load, the weight gain doesn’t happen.

Rather than the 800m improving, it’s just a larger variance from the norm. In 5 years, we could be back to no one breaking 1:42.

Since years I'm telling the forum that Kenyan performances are declining. Again and again I was proved right like today when in a single race Kenyans have become no 4, no 10, no 11 on the 800m all-time list.

Also Kipyegon's WR today proves it. Earlier in the year Chebet's 10000m WR. And so on. Clearly declining.

Too many improved just in time for the Olympics is very suspect!

point proven

The Belgian 800m record was set in 1976 by the legendary Ivo Van Damme (1'43"86).

48 years later Ellliott Crestan ran 1'42"43 at the Diamond League in Paris today - more than a second faster !

Performances 3, 4 and 5 on the 800m all-time list have been set today !

Except when Jakob run?
Because he has a "racial intelligence" to do a clean scientific training program (?!)

Well let me guess:

To be good ... runners should start doing high volume daily races by the age of 8.

That's not how creatine loading works.

Creatine loading is the process of your body becoming saturated with the stuff. If you take 3g a day, it might take many weeks, like 3, 4, or 5 to become fully saturated, or "loaded." If you take 5g/day, most people say it takes about two weeks. Some people take more so they reach that point faster. No matter what, you will gain the water weight.

Disclaimer: I do not believe athletes are finally just discovering creatine and that's why we're seeing these times. It's not the worst supplement to take for the 800, but it WILL make you gain a few lbs of water weight. It maybe makes sense to take in the pre-season if you're a bit more serious about the weightroom and trying to gain muscle mass.

No, performances 9, 10 11, 23, 24 have been set. And 3 Kenyans have become no 4, 10, 11 on the all-time list.

I don’t think 1-2 lbs of water weight from creatine is that big of a deal for these guys…