Combine that with the fact that, generally speaking, high schoolers can more organically hold a favorable power:weight ratio, don't have the same access to parties/drinking/distractions as collegians, are incentivized by college admissions, and live with their parents who take care of "life stuff" and you have an optimized formula to go all in and throw down fast times
Do you think some colleges really screw with some athletes and they never develop as a result? I never ran in college, so I'm not sure how much the coach is able to tailor a training program for each athlete.
I can say with certainty that in some other college sports, the strength and conditioning programs are a one size fits all approach and it either works for some athletes or it doesn't. For years, a lot of major college football programs trained the nose tackle and quarterback exactly the same, hence why some teams were not able to compete or reach the top ranks.
you’d have a point if anyone of these kids could run this fast in 2017 era or earlier track spikes. They all wear super foam spring boards for a reason. Stop lying.
Does anybody have any insight into what the top high schoolers training looks like these days? Mileage, workouts, anything about training philosophy?
My apologies for the cliche but I feel I must quote Once A Runner here:
"What was the secret, they wanted to know; in a thousand different ways they wanted to know The Secret. And not one of them was prepared, truly prepared to believe that it had not so much to do with chemicals and zippy mental tricks as with that most unprofound and sometimes heart-rending process of removing, molecule by molecule, the very tough rubber that comprised the bottoms of his training shoes. The Trial of Miles; Miles of Trials."
I hate to break it to ya pal but it mostly comes down to consistency (train year-round, without getting injured, gradually increasing volume and intensity as you get better) and natural talent (some people can run a 50 second quarter, some can't. Some people can run an hour off no training without feeling gassed, some can't). Given that you can't control your talent - you've got no choice but to be consistent if you want to be good. There are no secret workouts that will make you elite. Simeon Birnbaum and Gary Martin were doing the same 6 x 1000 with 3 min rests as you are - they're just doing them much faster.
Ok this is true to some extent, but also the secret trick of “running easy days easy” got me into the best shape of my life within like 6 weeks. Sometimes I wonder what the guys on my HS team that ran 4:15-4:20 could’ve run if they ran their easy days easy.
It’s also too small of a data set to know if that’s a statistically significant change. For example, maybe great weather in 2024 (or bad weather in 2021) at a major meet like Arcadia. Need more years. You’re obviously not a stats guy.
I really think Strava has a big impact on this. Kids see what other kids are doing and everyone steps up their game. I don't think the shoes are as big a deal, but they help. I'm not sure if everyone wears them, but I could be wrong about that. Looking at distance running in my state I've seen a huge improvement not only at the very top, but also in terms of depth. What was a solid time 10 years ago isn't so solid anymore.
Stumbled upon this Danny Simmons from the weekend; said he rebuilt his base between Utah state meet and 5k record, topping out at 84 mpw. Likely 6-day weeks as well given LDS affiliation. Maybe that's particular to the American Fork modus operandi vs other programs, but I suspect it's becoming more common than we realize
I doubt most/many folks *truly* hit their distance running peak while in high school but I would venture that both male and female high schoolers can get closer to max than we'd expect (and than previous generations were able to) given the right training. Every state has one if not several high schools that consistently produce state champs, FL/NXN qualifiers, etc. Part of that is culture - within the community and the team itself - and part of it is access to more sophisticated coaching. For example, compare Reed Brown at Southlake Carroll vs Nuguse at some rando Kentucky school, relative to their lifetime (thus far) abilities as graduating seniors in '17. I think the mean level of high school coaching competency has probably improved a lot over the past several years. Combine that with the fact that, generally speaking, high schoolers can more organically hold a favorable power:weight ratio, don't have the same access to parties/drinking/distractions as collegians, are incentivized by college admissions, and live with their parents who take care of "life stuff" and you have an optimized formula to go all in and throw down fast times
Nuguse’s alma mater Manuel HS has qualified their girls team (Same Coach) to NXN. Not a random school.
Higher levels of training and knowledge across the board. Way back in the day I still remember the 1982 Bellaire Relays in Ohio and Ricky Pittman from East Cleveland Tech outkicking John Zishka to win in 8:46 3200. Back then it was super fast. Today fast, but not the elite. I think the difference is so much knowledge available and sharing that did not happen 40 years ago.
HS coaches did not have a grasp of higher level running and generally only the most gifted athletes would run fast times. Today it’s another level in HS: specialized year round training, nutrition, supplemental exercise, shoes, etc. this is the best HS running has ever been - no comparison.
Higher levels of training and knowledge across the board. Way back in the day I still remember the 1982 Bellaire Relays in Ohio and Ricky Pittman from East Cleveland Tech outkicking John Zishka to win in 8:46 3200. Back then it was super fast. Today fast, but not the elite. I think the difference is so much knowledge available and sharing that did not happen 40 years ago.
HS coaches did not have a grasp of higher level running and generally only the most gifted athletes would run fast times. Today it’s another level in HS: specialized year round training, nutrition, supplemental exercise, shoes, etc. this is the best HS running has ever been - no comparison.
Same with other sports--look at AAU bball, soccer, etc. Irish Dancing too--girls and guys I know who dance have coaches year-round, private dance lessons, weekly trips to feisanna (competitions)--it is not cheap and it all adds up. But if you want to qualify for Nats or Worlds (i.e. the Riverdance level of dancers) you put in the work--similar to NXN XC runners.
LOVE the Cleveland reference. I'm younger but grew up in the '90s.
Marc Sylvester from Ignatius was a beast. 1:48 in the 800. Other studs in XC were Chris English, Justin Baum, Nick Hankins, Moon Javaid, James Sjostrom, etc. This was the 1998-2002 timeframe.
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1. Better shoes. 2. The internet allows for others to compare and share training and copy the elites and spy on your competition and outwork them. 3. Higher mileage.
The internet, letsrun, flotrack, instagram, youtube, twitter, facebook all existed in 2010 btw. The "internet" excuse is one of the most hilarious ones out there, and I don't understand how anybody can rationally defend it.
It's the shoes. Full stop.
Any increase in mileage in recent years is because of the shoes are allowing it to happen (less injury risk in shoes like vaporfly). Don't be simpletons and think people who say "its the shoes" are just talking about racing spikes. It's the complete package. Racing spikes certainly help fast times, but athletes doing all or most of their training in modern footwear means they can train harder and longer which drives better results come race time. It's the shoes.
1. Better shoes. 2. The internet allows for others to compare and share training and copy the elites and spy on your competition and outwork them. 3. Higher mileage.
The internet, letsrun, flotrack, instagram, youtube, twitter, facebook all existed in 2010 btw. The "internet" excuse is one of the most hilarious ones out there, and I don't understand how anybody can rationally defend it.
It's the shoes. Full stop.
Any increase in mileage in recent years is because of the shoes are allowing it to happen (less injury risk in shoes like vaporfly). Don't be simpletons and think people who say "its the shoes" are just talking about racing spikes. It's the complete package. Racing spikes certainly help fast times, but athletes doing all or most of their training in modern footwear means they can train harder and longer which drives better results come race time. It's the shoes.
Hey idiot, isn’t Strava a part of the internet? What do you think this poster meant when he said “share training”? I swear LR users are some of dumbest on the web, and I’ve been on Facebook.
Combine that with the fact that, generally speaking, high schoolers can more organically hold a favorable power:weight ratio, don't have the same access to parties/drinking/distractions as collegians, are incentivized by college admissions, and live with their parents who take care of "life stuff" and you have an optimized formula to go all in and throw down fast times
Do you think some colleges really screw with some athletes and they never develop as a result? I never ran in college, so I'm not sure how much the coach is able to tailor a training program for each athlete.
I can say with certainty that in some other college sports, the strength and conditioning programs are a one size fits all approach and it either works for some athletes or it doesn't. For years, a lot of major college football programs trained the nose tackle and quarterback exactly the same, hence why some teams were not able to compete or reach the top ranks.
I know at one decent D1 school there were some very upset freshmen that felt the training was too “one size fits all.” Were they right? No idea. There could have been a lot of reasons they weren’t progressing how they wanted.
My kids fast and he’s not on anything, takes a list of college classes in high school. Now he does wear carbon shoes which I look at just like any other sport when equipment gets better. Every sport evolves. So actually you don’t know what your saying
My kids fast and he’s not on anything, takes a list of college classes in high school. Now he does wear carbon shoes which I look at just like any other sport when equipment gets better. Every sport evolves. So actually you don’t know what your saying
Success breeds success. The big 5 sports are Football, Basketball, Baseball,Soccer, maybe Hockey. these have become ultra competitive with extensive camps and travel. Population of kids playing sports has increased and I think we get more talent just filtering in from these sports. I also think that middle school track teams have increased and individuals recognize talent very early.