“The Democrats? They didn't cause this either. There is no legislation that guaranteed access to high school sports for transgender people, just measures that protected such people from discrimination in hiring and housing.”
Democrats did cause this. They have reimagined civil rights law to include people who identify as a different sex. This reinterpretation has opened the door for all kinds of problems.
Why is it that only trans-girls (born biological males) seem to run track? Where are the trans-boys (born biological females)?
Oh, right. It’s because they wouldn’t be claiming podium spots at meets…
It’s likely that they exist in similar numbers. However they are unlikely to be successful, so they do not cause any controversy. Thus we do not hear about them.
Discus. How do sane Democrats think competing against males is fair to actual females?
As a left-leaning person, I don’t think it’s fair and very few of my left leaning friends have had positive things to say about this. I don’t think many people feel positively about the athletic success of an individual who transitioned from male to female and then goes on to compete against females.
It would make more sense for these athletes to get their own category in competition. They can run in either a men’s or women’s heat as to not slow the meet down, but they get classified as transgender.
Also I think it’s important that we take the hatred out of this. Or at least not point the hatred at the individuals. Obviously this situation is awful for everyone involved, but there is no need for the constant hate directed at transgender people. Many of these people are just trying to find their way through life, and frankly a lot of people treat trans people terribly.
In short; I think trans people shouldn’t be allowed to transition from make to female and then compete as females. However, I don’t think this should be continually used to stoke a fire of hatred against trans-people they should get their own category and this should revert back to a non-issue
I was at a track meet where a female athlete identified as a boy and ran the boy's 3200. It was not an issue. The kid ran like 13 flat in the JV field and was last but not by much.
So I think they do. I also think that if trans-girls wanted to "just participate" in track, this wouldn't be an issue. The problem is that there are kids who are outright dominating the competition. The problem for me isn't that they participate, since I am pretty open minded about that, it is when they impact the outcome of the varsity and district and state meets.
If you want to just identify as a girl and run mid-pack as a JV girl, nobody really will notice/care. Most human beings aren't "transphobic" haters like the Left claims. But if the same male literally beats down every girl in the state, that is not okay.
If they just want to participate, thats fine. Let them do intramural or rec. Who cares?
Thats not it. They want the win! They want to get attention. They want to be dramatic and controversial. Then they win and make ridiculous statements about how the real girls weren't that nice to them.
If you don't see this, there aren't glasses strong enough to help you.
Nah I think Ruxton has it right. I think at the college level and beyond it's fine to make them just do intramural/rec, but in high school, T&F is super tied to school teams, and it's a social thing too. For the trans girls who are dominating the whole state, the problem can basically be solved by just not letting them compete at state/sectionals, or maybe just not letting them compete as varsity athletes (although they'd be crushing JV races lol). Most people don't get to run state anyway, so I don't think it's really harmful to the trans kid, and they don't lose the social benefits of being on a HS team.
Discus. How do sane Democrats think competing against males is fair to actual females?
A lot of us don't. I'm a democrat and I don't think it's fair. (And I would definitely not call myself 'sane' lol)
This is a couple months old, but according to this poll, only 19% of Americans support "Allowing transgender athletes to play on sports teams that match their gender identity", with 22% not sure, and 59% opposing it. At best, less than 1/5 Americans think it's "fair", and it's probably a lot less than that, because there are a lot of people like me who think it's not "fair", but at the HS level it doesn't matter a ton as long as they aren't winning championships.
Majorities agree with existing protections in the U.S. for transgender people against hate crimes and discriminatory firings, but transgender inclusion in athletics, prisons, and public bathrooms all receive more opposition t...
“The Democrats? They didn't cause this either. There is no legislation that guaranteed access to high school sports for transgender people, just measures that protected such people from discrimination in hiring and housing.”
Democrats did cause this. They have reimagined civil rights law to include people who identify as a different sex. This reinterpretation has opened the door for all kinds of problems.
Respectfully, this is a problem caused by judicial activism and not legislative politics. Civil litigation is not tried at the state house. Activist judges on the federal bench (where most of these cases wind up) are lifetime appointees with nearly zero accountability.
did anyone actually read the article and check out the times and marks of the winning athletes. one of the girls won an 800 in 2:19! thats slow af compared to other states. CA girls state champion was 2:07 by comparison. weak fields doesn't mean they had an advantage, it just means the other girls sucked a lot more
The time is immaterial to the argument. Even terrible boys can run 2:19 off of little training, but for a girl to hit 2:19, they typically have to train hard for years. You demonstrate your lack of respect for women with your argument.
“The Democrats? They didn't cause this either. There is no legislation that guaranteed access to high school sports for transgender people, just measures that protected such people from discrimination in hiring and housing.”
Democrats did cause this. They have reimagined civil rights law to include people who identify as a different sex. This reinterpretation has opened the door for all kinds of problems.
I find the idea that people can "identify" as something and other people have to pay this the slightest attention ridiculous but can you point me to laws that previously prevented this and new laws that expressly permit it? By which I mean actual legislation, not claims.
I was at a track meet where a female athlete identified as a boy and ran the boy's 3200. It was not an issue. The kid ran like 13 flat in the JV field and was last but not by much.
So I think they do. I also think that if trans-girls wanted to "just participate" in track, this wouldn't be an issue. The problem is that there are kids who are outright dominating the competition. The problem for me isn't that they participate, since I am pretty open minded about that, it is when they impact the outcome of the varsity and district and state meets.
If you want to just identify as a girl and run mid-pack as a JV girl, nobody really will notice/care. Most human beings aren't "transphobic" haters like the Left claims. But if the same male literally beats down every girl in the state, that is not okay.
Your stated position—not minding trans participation but not accepting their winning—is the definition of transphobia.
You’d call not minding women working in senior corporate jobs but thinking it unacceptable for them to dominate the C-suite and boardrooms rather misogynist, won’t you?
All athletes no matter what they self identify as should be able to compete against and with each other. The solution is to create categories based on talent. For example all people, no matter if they're male, female or trans, who can run a mile between 4:30 to 4:45 will run the same race. The number of categories for each event can arbitrarily be created. I think this would be fair because it's based talent only.
Why blame democrats? Republicans should have ENDED this insanity a long long time ago. You should expect dems to be the crackpots. But you have to expect more out of a GOP who says they oppose them on a clear issue like this. The fact of the matter is Republicans' are a soft weak party and can't conserve anything. Now Bruce Jenner is on Fox as a regular. That's a republican network.
So where do you think this is headed when one side works for insane changes, and the other side whos supposed to conserve is already embracing trans figures because "JENNER LIKES LOW TAXES!".
Nonsense, every Republican is against this.....MANY Democrats are for this....This is a product of the left...
Discus. How do sane Democrats think competing against males is fair to actual females?
A lot of us don't. I'm a democrat and I don't think it's fair. (And I would definitely not call myself 'sane' lol)
For the millionth time, it's not a Democrat thing . All my town, friends, neighboring town, state, family are democrats and none think guys should play women in women's sports
So how come anyone tries to go stealth if they want to get attention?
Most people didn't know one of the five state champions in the article was trans until she was outed by the rightwing media a few months ago. She still remains completely silent about her trans identity. That seems to be the complete opposite of wanting to be dramatic and controversial.
One.
How about the rest?
Most trans athletes in high schools and middle schools are like that one athlete from CT, and not like the other four.
You don't hear about them because (a) they don't want to be known as trans, and (b) they don't win anything important.
Every once in a while, they get outed by the rightwing media for one reason or another. That girl from CT was too good for her own sake. If she were a mediocre jumper, no one would have started transvestigation, and she would still be enjoying her school life as just another girl.
I don't know what the solution is. What I do know if that no one seems brave enough to craft a pragmatic solution or to find a fair middle ground. Sadly, this is going to be with us for a while because I don't see things changing. Both sides can get TV time and fundraise off of it so letting it fester serves a purpose. For those of you with daughters in the crossfire, make sure that you support them, advocate for them, and let them know that their athletic journey means far more than a medal at state. Talent still gets recruited and collegiate coaches live in reality.
No elected officials propose the "middle ground" because the middle ground is not politically appealing. In elected politics, the simpler the message, the more powerful it is. And the more extreme the message is, the more appealing it is to their base.
That's why this issue should not be left to elected officials. Organizations like World Aquatics, World Athletics, World Triathlon, UCI have come up with a fair "middle ground." Most people on this board absolutely hate it because it does not go far enough. Many trans activists hate it because it goes too far.
Most trans athletes who meet the eligibility criteria are probably content (if not happy) and so are their allies. But they cannot say that in public because they will be attacked by trans activists as traitors. (I have seen many comments that start with "This is different from Lia Thomas situation..." from supporters of trans athletes.)
Why is it that only trans-girls (born biological males) seem to run track? Where are the trans-boys (born biological females)?
Oh, right. It’s because they wouldn’t be claiming podium spots at meets…
It’s likely that they exist in similar numbers. However they are unlikely to be successful, so they do not cause any controversy. Thus we do not hear about them.
They don't exist in similar numbers. There are far more trans boys who compete in the boys division than trans girls who compete in the girls division.
When North Carolina banned trans athletes from high school and middle school sports. There were TWO trans girls in girls sports (one in high school and another in middle school). There were thirteen trans boys in boys sports.
