They are, but "gradually faster" isn't the usual definition of a kick.
He squeezes as much as he kicks and he can smoothly hit an impressive top gear and hold it. He is vulnerable in the last 50 if he is trailing or you are someone who can shift gears off a fast pace. I find it surprising that people don't acknowledge this, as it was a problem for El Guerrouj too and is honestly nothing to be defensive about. You could see what Tim did in Stockholm the last 50 where it looked like he hit the turbo button. Sure Jakob wasn't at his 100% best with travel and a hard effort beforehand, but he was shadowboxing and racing the mascot 30 seconds later. The problem was not fitness, it is an aspect of his, his sole weakness as a 1500m runner. Josh or Jake beat him by getting by him, but the other way would be to wait, wait, wait and then come by in the last 50 when he doesn't have another gear to fend you off. 12.89 in a 3:31.9 race is impressive, but again Brian Komen closed in similar on an extremely windy, early season race in Doha that was only marginally slower. Komen himself was asked about beating Jakob and he said he is great at pacing and his only vulnerability is that extra gear in the last 50. He is correct. Josh Kerr has intimated the same and it is what he was referencing with the "yes-man" comments. Running from the front is always going to be a challenge, but it is more Jakob's ability/inability to either chase down someone who passes him (from 300-150 out) or hold off a patient kicker in the last 50 that is the crux of the matter. This becomes moot if his fitness advantage is such that he builds a gap like Tim in Doha 2019. But I can't see that happening.
A detailed explanation but it still basically makes the point that a long drive and not a kick is Jakob's strength over the 1500.
It's obvious that Cheryuiot and a few other 800m based runners (Wightman, Kerr) have better last speed in the 50m. Jakob has exploited to the extreme his poll of speed-endurance.
They are, but "gradually faster" isn't the usual definition of a kick.
He squeezes as much as he kicks and he can smoothly hit an impressive top gear and hold it. He is vulnerable in the last 50 if he is trailing or you are someone who can shift gears off a fast pace. I find it surprising that people don't acknowledge this, as it was a problem for El Guerrouj too and is honestly nothing to be defensive about. You could see what Tim did in Stockholm the last 50 where it looked like he hit the turbo button. Sure Jakob wasn't at his 100% best with travel and a hard effort beforehand, but he was shadowboxing and racing the mascot 30 seconds later. The problem was not fitness, it is an aspect of his, his sole weakness as a 1500m runner. Josh or Jake beat him by getting by him, but the other way would be to wait, wait, wait and then come by in the last 50 when he doesn't have another gear to fend you off. 12.89 in a 3:31.9 race is impressive, but again Brian Komen closed in similar on an extremely windy, early season race in Doha that was only marginally slower. Komen himself was asked about beating Jakob and he said he is great at pacing and his only vulnerability is that extra gear in the last 50. He is correct. Josh Kerr has intimated the same and it is what he was referencing with the "yes-man" comments. Running from the front is always going to be a challenge, but it is more Jakob's ability/inability to either chase down someone who passes him (from 300-150 out) or hold off a patient kicker in the last 50 that is the crux of the matter. This becomes moot if his fitness advantage is such that he builds a gap like Tim in Doha 2019. But I can't see that happening.
This supposed issue of Jakob’s feels pretty contrived, honestly. You can watch him “hit the turbo” in several 1500m races last season. It’s especially obvious in Rabat, Oslo, and Lausanne, where multiple guys are sitting on him going into the final bend and he dusts them over the last 100. It’s not just a matter of the others fading either, you can see his stride change as he powers away from them.
I don’t know where you’re getting the idea he’s unable to shift gears off a fast pace. Bringing up this year’s Oslo race is bizarre, frankly. You acknowledge the extenuating circumstances but then throw them out to make your point lol. And I’m sorry, but what is your evidence for the El G comment?
You are a great poster but I think you are off the mark here.
Anyone can "toy with Europe." These are people who think soccer is a manly sport.
Jakob Ingebrigtsen is 100% probable doper, on same regimen as their skiers, and up against losers in a champs situation how can he fail.
In Diamond League against the world's best, he's 1 for 2, and had to dive for that 1.
He tells you he's "coming off an injury," and you're fool enough to believe A) he'll ever be 100% again after a torn Achilles, or B) he was ever injured and isn't ducking testers by not racing.
If it was someone like Makhloufi, you'd realize what Jakob is doing
I think Jakob may say that but ultimately he is trying to win and controlling the race at a fast tempo is his best chance (in his eyes) based on eliminating 75%+ of the field’s chance to win off the jump. Tim Cheruiyot had the exact same calculus so Jakob is not special in this tactic, let’s be honest. He wants to win and run fast, but being opposed to making it a complete kickers race/random does not make him unique as Kerr/Nuguse would do the same at this point in my eyes were there no Jakob. And Tim/Kipsang are similar. So once we’ve established he’s going to be up front I think the squeeze is to burn off his competition due to his fear of leaving the chance for someone to overtake him inside the last 300 and his knowledge that it is uncertain if he can either pass back or hold off a late kicker.
We’ve seen in his races 3,000 and up, he has the speed advantage and he doesn’t apply the same strategy for the most part.
I don’t think we disagree much here -of course Jakob wants to win, and also thinks tactically (especially when he has to -f.ex not in top shape or confronted with an outstanding competition; current Kerr). And yes, I think Jakob very much think he has to squeeze guys like Wightman in the third lap to be on the safe side. But I also believe Jakob thinks Jake is no match the last 200m in a fast race (despite superior 800m speed), simply because the Brit (or anybody else for that matter) hasn’t shown any ability to kick when the average pace is high enough…
We don’t know if Jakob can kick a 50m sprint, or how fast he can go the last 200m of a slow 1500m. In 2020 he was out sprinted by Lewandowski in Euros indoors, so I think Jakob’s learning process is never to leave it to a kick. But 2023 Jakob was superior to the 2020 version (he wasn’t even grossly out kicked in the mentioned indoors) so we don’t even know for sure if a peak Kerr can out sprint a peak Jakob the last 200m in a slow race…
Anyone can "toy with Europe." These are people who think soccer is a manly sport.
Jakob Ingebrigtsen is 100% probable doper, on same regimen as their skiers, and up against losers in a champs situation how can he fail.
In Diamond League against the world's best, he's 1 for 2, and had to dive for that 1.
He tells you he's "coming off an injury," and you're fool enough to believe A) he'll ever be 100% again after a torn Achilles, or B) he was ever injured and isn't ducking testers by not racing.
If it was someone like Makhloufi, you'd realize what Jakob is doing
No, not anyone can “toy with Europe”! - Jakob was up against three athletes with 1500m pbs very alike those of Wchamps Wightman’s and Kerr’s! And multiple 3.30 guys…
Saying the above, I have to add that it turned out quite easily for Jakob -none of the mentioned competitors above were at their A-game (for multiple of reasons). But hardly Jakob’s fault…
When you're the fastest runner just outrun everybody from the start. Why wait for the last lap or 200 and get caught up in a kickers race with unpredictable results? Jakob's strength is the ability to sustain long, high tempo drives that his competitors can't match.
Actually it was not that impressive. The last 500 1:07.22. Still no match for Josh Kerr. Narve Gilje Nordas panicked in the semifinals after 900. He ran 900 - 1400 1:06.05. From 1000-1400 52:22. Fourteen days from now they are going to compete in The Norwegian Championships.
Really disappointing performances for the other 3 runners (Habz, Nader, Gourley) that werec supposed to set challenge in the race. Nader maybe was under the shock of his fall in the semi-final. But Jakob was equal to himself as always.
When you're the fastest runner just outrun everybody from the start. Why wait for the last lap or 200 and get caught up in a kickers race with unpredictable results? Jakob's strength is the ability to sustain long, high tempo drives that his competitors can't match.
He squeezes as much as he kicks and he can smoothly hit an impressive top gear and hold it. He is vulnerable in the last 50 if he is trailing or you are someone who can shift gears off a fast pace. I find it surprising that people don't acknowledge this, as it was a problem for El Guerrouj too and is honestly nothing to be defensive about. You could see what Tim did in Stockholm the last 50 where it looked like he hit the turbo button. Sure Jakob wasn't at his 100% best with travel and a hard effort beforehand, but he was shadowboxing and racing the mascot 30 seconds later. The problem was not fitness, it is an aspect of his, his sole weakness as a 1500m runner. Josh or Jake beat him by getting by him, but the other way would be to wait, wait, wait and then come by in the last 50 when he doesn't have another gear to fend you off. 12.89 in a 3:31.9 race is impressive, but again Brian Komen closed in similar on an extremely windy, early season race in Doha that was only marginally slower. Komen himself was asked about beating Jakob and he said he is great at pacing and his only vulnerability is that extra gear in the last 50. He is correct. Josh Kerr has intimated the same and it is what he was referencing with the "yes-man" comments. Running from the front is always going to be a challenge, but it is more Jakob's ability/inability to either chase down someone who passes him (from 300-150 out) or hold off a patient kicker in the last 50 that is the crux of the matter. This becomes moot if his fitness advantage is such that he builds a gap like Tim in Doha 2019. But I can't see that happening.
This supposed issue of Jakob’s feels pretty contrived, honestly. You can watch him “hit the turbo” in several 1500m races last season. It’s especially obvious in Rabat, Oslo, and Lausanne, where multiple guys are sitting on him going into the final bend and he dusts them over the last 100. It’s not just a matter of the others fading either, you can see his stride change as he powers away from them.
I don’t know where you’re getting the idea he’s unable to shift gears off a fast pace. Bringing up this year’s Oslo race is bizarre, frankly. You acknowledge the extenuating circumstances but then throw them out to make your point lol. And I’m sorry, but what is your evidence for the El G comment?
You are a great poster but I think you are off the mark here.
Jakob never has an explosive finish. That's the definition of a great kick. His best finish is a sustained buildup of pace. He runs the legs off his competitors.