LRC note. We changed the title of the thread to make it more clear what exactly happened. The thread was initially entiteld, "Transgender sprinter wins Oregon girls' state championship 200". Moving forward, you must be a registered user to post.
The 2 sides, are people opposed to transgender female athletes and the OSAA. Democrats are either opposed to transgender athletes or are indifferent. Very few are passionate about allowing transgender participation.
But why did Binder refer to Aayden Gallagher, the boy identifying as a girl, with feminine pronouns? Binder wrote: "And yet, Gallagher deserves some credit as a trail-blazing trans athlete. I have no issue with respecting her identity or preferred pronouns. I suspect that she is female in many aspects of life. It took courage and determination to get through the past two days, let alone the past five weeks. She has revealed some admirable qualities."
That's a capitulation to false reasoning. Aayden Gallagher is not female, neither on the track nor in other aspects of his life. We aren't helping him by tolerating the charade no matter how deeply internal it might be.
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
Yes,but what is the solution? Trans people have a right to be who they are,but im all for protecting women's sport.I dont believe its ok for aayden to be booed every time she runs.My concern is that one day we could have biological men breaking women's world records.
But why did Binder refer to Aayden Gallagher, the boy identifying as a girl, with feminine pronouns? Binder wrote: "And yet, Gallagher deserves some credit as a trail-blazing trans athlete. I have no issue with respecting her identity or preferred pronouns. I suspect that she is female in many aspects of life. It took courage and determination to get through the past two days, let alone the past five weeks. She has revealed some admirable qualities."
That's a capitulation to false reasoning. Aayden Gallagher is not female, neither on the track nor in other aspects of his life. We aren't helping him by tolerating the charade no matter how deeply internal it might be.
Yes,but what is the solution? Trans people have a right to be who they are,but im all for protecting women's sport.I dont believe its ok for aayden to be booed every time she runs.My concern is that one day we could have biological men breaking women's world records.
If you’re referring to T&F, there is a de facto ban in the NCAA, USATF and WA, that makes setting a record impossible.
My concern is that one day we could have biological men breaking women's world records.
We are in a position that that could happen any day, really.
The record would not be recognized by World Athletics, but a trans girl could run faster than the world record in an event like the 800 at any time.
Even though World Athletics wouldn't recognize it, would it create a new "girls' record" in a state that could never, ever be beaten? And how is that fair to XX humans who rightfully participate in their division?
Or do we expect that the history books will be corrected after all of this nonsense is ended? And will the runner-up in these races later be declared the state champion? Probably not, and even if they are the glory of the moment will have been stolen from them by cowardly adults who can't craft a policy to protect them and their right to fair competition.
Good for her. It is truly great to see people able to live and compete as their internal gender identity.
As a reminder gender is a made up construct and there is no reason to force people to live as the gender that matches their sex. In life it is gender that matters and that is true if competition. That is why I support trans women living and competing as women.
That's fine, no problem with that statement. But athletic competition has been divided into two primary categories for able-bodied humans that were determined by sex and not gender. Those categories were named "male" and "female". They aren't gender categories, they are sex categories (as you refer to them). And there is precedent, basis and evidence that these sex categories are not only needed but required for fair and safe sport (safe when you begin to the talk contact sports etc).
Competitive sport isn't about gender identity it's about biological sex. It's quite simple. So I'm sorry to say this but you are wrong. You've come up with your own arbitrary interpretation of something and it's incorrect. And you are still entitled to your opinion but that opinion is wrong.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
My concern is that one day we could have biological men breaking women's world records.
We are in a position that that could happen any day, really.
The record would not be recognized by World Athletics, but a trans girl could run faster than the world record in an event like the 800 at any time.
Even though World Athletics wouldn't recognize it, would it create a new "girls' record" in a state that could never, ever be beaten? And how is that fair to XX humans who rightfully participate in their division?
Or do we expect that the history books will be corrected after all of this nonsense is ended? And will the runner-up in these races later be declared the state champion? Probably not, and even if they are the glory of the moment will have been stolen from them by cowardly adults who can't craft a policy to protect them and their right to fair competition.
The WA wouldn’t even hear about a record set by a transgender athlete, and even in the unlikely event the transgender time was recorded as a state record, it would be rejected by 100% of track fans. For sure, T&F News wouldn’t put it on any list.
Monsters never show care or even interest for girls' and women's sports except when trans is involved. Because trans make them feel weird feelings. Just look at the abuse allowed on women athletes over the years here. All these white knights come lately were okay with that.
That is not true. First of all, most of us are dads, not "monsters" and we have always cared about our daughters' opportunities. We were also livid when the boys football program got $10,000 worth of new jerseys and the girls volleyball team was forced to wear old, ill-fitting gear from ten years ago.
It is almost always about equity, not about "hating trans people." I could care less about how you dress or what pronoun you use. But a biological male can't barge into the locker room or onto the field and dominate the girls sports. Does that make me a hater?
Girls deserve fair and equal opportunities in sports. That has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with biology...
As I pointed out before, there are boys in Oregon who are faster than the women's world records, that is why we have separate divisions. Not because anyone "hates" another person.
The WA wouldn’t even hear about a record set by a transgender athlete, and even in the unlikely event the transgender time was recorded as a state record, it would be rejected by 100% of track fans. For sure, T&F News wouldn’t put it on any list.
The problem for most fans is that we don't know anymore if the athlete is a boy or a girl when it is just a name on the paper: McKenna Smith? Violet Miller? Madison Jones? Are those (theoretical) people males or a females?
Ten years from now you will see a name on the list and you'll have no way to know if it was a male who set the girls' record.
But I do think the thing that needs to happen is for trans-girls to get all the records. Then we'll just have to have two "girls' lists" --- one for biological girls and one for trans-girls.
Just like the angry non-binary person who noticed that all non-binary races were won by non-binary males. So they suggested having two non-binary categories... Insane, right?
The WA wouldn’t even hear about a record set by a transgender athlete, and even in the unlikely event the transgender time was recorded as a state record, it would be rejected by 100% of track fans. For sure, T&F News wouldn’t put it on any list.
The problem for most fans is that we don't know anymore if the athlete is a boy or a girl when it is just a name on the paper: McKenna Smith? Violet Miller? Madison Jones? Are those (theoretical) people males or a females?
Ten years from now you will see a name on the list and you'll have no way to know if it was a male who set the girls' record.
But I do think the thing that needs to happen is for trans-girls to get all the records. Then we'll just have to have two "girls' lists" --- one for biological girls and one for trans-girls.
Just like the angry non-binary person who noticed that all non-binary races were won by non-binary males. So they suggested having two non-binary categories... Insane, right?
Come on. Everyone at the HS would know the athlete was transgender and the same for anyone that saw her compete. If a record was set by a transgender athlete, there would be a 50 page LR thread in response that most people could not ignore. It doesn’t matter if hermit T&F fans, that only follow the sports by looking at lists, are duped.
Yes,but what is the solution? Trans people have a right to be who they are,but im all for protecting women's sport.I dont believe its ok for aayden to be booed every time she runs.My concern is that one day we could have biological men breaking women's world records.
The solution should be simple. Transathletes should compete in the sex of their birth or they don't compete at all. There are three types of sports categories - sex, age and disabilty. Gender - a belief like religion - has nothing to do with it.
Just as I can't go compete in my son's tee-ball game even though I feel much younger than my actual age, a biological male shouldn't be allowed to compete in female sports even if they are on medication as they aren't female.
There is no level of medication that will make it fair. Usain Bolt winning Olympic women's gold wouldn't be fair for SAFP, Sha'Carri, etc.
And as I've stated multiple times, from a numbers perspective, it makes no sense as well. Why are we prioritizing the wellbeing of one athlete (the trans one) over all of the other biological females who are losing out?
But why did Binder refer to Aayden Gallagher, the boy identifying as a girl, with feminine pronouns? Binder wrote: "And yet, Gallagher deserves some credit as a trail-blazing trans athlete. I have no issue with respecting her identity or preferred pronouns. I suspect that she is female in many aspects of life. It took courage and determination to get through the past two days, let alone the past five weeks. She has revealed some admirable qualities."
That's a capitulation to false reasoning. Aayden Gallagher is not female, neither on the track nor in other aspects of his life. We aren't helping him by tolerating the charade no matter how deeply internal it might be.
Yes,but what is the solution? Trans people have a right to be who they are,but im all for protecting women's sport.I dont believe its ok for aayden to be booed every time she runs...
Hard disagree. Aayden Gallagher is cheating and should be booed every time Aayden competes against biological women. This behaviour needs to be discouraged.
This post was edited 35 seconds after it was posted.
There is no level of medication that will make it fair. Usain Bolt winning Olympic women's gold wouldn't be fair for SAFP, Sha'Carri, etc.
And as I've stated multiple times, from a numbers perspective, it makes no sense as well. Why are we prioritizing the wellbeing of one athlete (the trans one) over all of the other biological females who are losing out?
Usain Bolt would also beat you, rojo, in every 100m race you ever run against him. How is that fair? Why do you prioritize his well-being over your right to win races? For a numbers perspective, it makes no sense at all.
We are in a position that that could happen any day, really.
The record would not be recognized by World Athletics, but a trans girl could run faster than the world record in an event like the 800 at any time.
Even though World Athletics wouldn't recognize it, would it create a new "girls' record" in a state that could never, ever be beaten? And how is that fair to XX humans who rightfully participate in their division?
Or do we expect that the history books will be corrected after all of this nonsense is ended? And will the runner-up in these races later be declared the state champion? Probably not, and even if they are the glory of the moment will have been stolen from them by cowardly adults who can't craft a policy to protect them and their right to fair competition.
The WA wouldn’t even hear about a record set by a transgender athlete, and even in the unlikely event the transgender time was recorded as a state record, it would be rejected by 100% of track fans. For sure, T&F News wouldn’t put it on any list.
We agree that WA wouldn’t worry about a time that is faster than a women’s World Record. They would ignore it.
We disagree (and I’m correct) that it would be recognized as a state record. A time that wins a girls’ state championship and is the fastest ever in that state absolutely would be recognized by that state’s athletic association as the state record. And it doesn’t matter how the fans feel or what they reject. It would be the record under current rules, even if is unassailable forever.
Yes,but what is the solution? Trans people have a right to be who they are,but im all for protecting women's sport.I dont believe its ok for aayden to be booed every time she runs.My concern is that one day we could have biological men breaking women's world records.
The solution should be simple. Transathletes should compete in the sex of their birth or they don't compete at all. There are three types of sports categories - sex, age and disabilty. Gender - a belief like religion - has nothing to do with it.
Just as I can't go compete in my son's tee-ball game even though I feel much younger than my actual age, a biological male shouldn't be allowed to compete in female sports even if they are on medication as they aren't female.
There is no level of medication that will make it fair. Usain Bolt winning Olympic women's gold wouldn't be fair for SAFP, Sha'Carri, etc.
And as I've stated multiple times, from a numbers perspective, it makes no sense as well. Why are we prioritizing the wellbeing of one athlete (the trans one) over all of the other biological females who are losing out?
Right, but what happens next? By that, I mean the process that needs to be taken to prevent transgender females from competing in HS.
dumb comment. There is currently NO policy that exists in the sport of track and field. Not a Democrat vs. Republican issue by any means. Until there is a formal policy about gender separation then this will continue.
There is no level of medication that will make it fair. Usain Bolt winning Olympic women's gold wouldn't be fair for SAFP, Sha'Carri, etc.
And as I've stated multiple times, from a numbers perspective, it makes no sense as well. Why are we prioritizing the wellbeing of one athlete (the trans one) over all of the other biological females who are losing out?
Usain Bolt would also beat you, rojo, in every 100m race you ever run against him. How is that fair? Why do you prioritize his well-being over your right to win races? For a numbers perspective, it makes no sense at all.
Would it be a 'fair' race to have someone race 90m while Bolt raced 100m but they called it a 100m race? They'd still almost certainly lose but it wouldn't be fair.
The WA wouldn’t even hear about a record set by a transgender athlete, and even in the unlikely event the transgender time was recorded as a state record, it would be rejected by 100% of track fans. For sure, T&F News wouldn’t put it on any list.
We agree that WA wouldn’t worry about a time that is faster than a women’s World Record. They would ignore it.
We disagree (and I’m correct) that it would be recognized as a state record. A time that wins a girls’ state championship and is the fastest ever in that state absolutely would be recognized by that state’s athletic association as the state record. And it doesn’t matter how the fans feel or what they reject. It would be the record under current rules, even if is unassailable forever.
Why does seeing a named typed somewhere bother you? Both of us would know it’s bogus. And so would anyone that is enough of a fan to search for state track records.
It should bother you exponentially more that Wang Junxia is recognized as the WR holder in the 3000m.
This post was edited 9 minutes after it was posted.
The WA wouldn’t even hear about a record set by a transgender athlete, and even in the unlikely event the transgender time was recorded as a state record, it would be rejected by 100% of track fans. For sure, T&F News wouldn’t put it on any list.
We agree that WA wouldn’t worry about a time that is faster than a women’s World Record. They would ignore it.
We disagree (and I’m correct) that it would be recognized as a state record. A time that wins a girls’ state championship and is the fastest ever in that state absolutely would be recognized by that state’s athletic association as the state record. And it doesn’t matter how the fans feel or what they reject. It would be the record under current rules, even if is unassailable forever.
Terry Miller, a male who claims to identify as the opposite sex, currently holds the Connecticut girls' state record for the 55 meter dash.
Miller also set records in the girls' 100- and 200-meter dashes and won a bunch of state and New England titles in girls' track.
Miller competed in girls' HS track for several years (2017-2020) with another male claiming a trans gender identity, Andraya Yearwood. In most of events they ran in and finished, Miller and Yearwood beat all the females. When questioned about whether this was fair, the two male runners told the press that the girls they smoked should simply train and try harder.
Some of the female athletes who ran against Miller and Yearwood in HS girls' track are suing Connectict state education authorities and scholastic sports officials in the hopes of getting the state girls' HS track records changed and overturning Connecticut's current policies that allow boys to use gender idenity claims to compete and dominate in girls' sports.
In that court case, which has been going on since early 2020, the female plaintiffs are being represented by the right-wing Alliance for Defending Freedom, whilst Miller and Yearwood - who joined the case voluntarily as intervenors - are represented by the ACLU.
The ACLU's attorneys have done their best to portray the female athletes as sore losers and bigots whose objections to male athletes muscling in on girls' sports are due to transphobia and an unsporting attitude. Those who back Miller and Yearwood in the case often say that the female plaintiffs are making a mountain out of molehill by filing and pursuing the lawsuit.