JOSH KERR STRIKES BACK “ I’m not going to let Jakob Ingebrigtsen belittle me”

kiltedrunner wrote:

Nah I think you're reaching severely here. Saying you're sick immediately after 3 races you just lost (indoor world champs, world champs and Monaco 2021) *is* disrespectful of the winner. You're also rewriting history with this 'Kerr didn't address his poor 2022 until a year later' angle. I remember specifically Kerr addressing that he wasn't at the level he needed to be at in various interviews that year and saying things like 'I'm going to give it my all and see what happens'. I even remember him talking to BBC during CW games and leaving me with the distinct impression he was going to be nowhere near the podium. So quit the history rewrites. Whilst we're at it, Jakob did not take the loss to Wightman with much more dignity- you're acting like he gave some gracious speech. Whilst on that occasion he didn't blame illness, he did say something like "how can I be so good and yet so terrible?" in the immediate aftermath. Not 'he was the better man tonight' but 'he only won because I ran terribly'. Wightman would hardly be delighted with that assessment.

Essentially, neither of them are particularly nice or gracious in the press, but of the two, JI has very obviously insulted more of his competitors and offered way more excuses. When Wightman won gold, who ran over and hugged him on the ground with a big smile on his face? Clue: it wasn't JI.

kiltedrunner wrote:

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

He never said the loss doesn’t count. He actually in the moment explained why he wasn’t in shape to win the race. Which he believed was sickness.
Anyone interpreting it as “the loss doesn’t count” is looking to get upset over a guy simply explaining what he thinks happened. You can’t put words in his mouth and weird inferences from his comments and then talk about dumb logic. There’s some big rush to act like Jakob can’t admit when he’s lost, when in 2022 he literally owned up to screwing up the tactics and costing himself the race.

Nah I think you're reaching severely here. Saying you're sick immediately after 3 races you just lost (indoor world champs, world champs and Monaco 2021) *is* disrespectful of the winner. You're also rewriting history with this 'Kerr didn't address his poor 2022 until a year later' angle. I remember specifically Kerr addressing that he wasn't at the level he needed to be at in various interviews that year and saying things like 'I'm going to give it my all and see what happens'. I even remember him talking to BBC during CW games and leaving me with the distinct impression he was going to be nowhere near the podium. So quit the history rewrites. Whilst we're at it, Jakob did not take the loss to Wightman with much more dignity- you're acting like he gave some gracious speech. Whilst on that occasion he didn't blame illness, he did say something like "how can I be so good and yet so terrible?" in the immediate aftermath. Not 'he was the better man tonight' but 'he only won because I ran terribly'. Wightman would hardly be delighted with that assessment.

Essentially, neither of them are particularly nice or gracious in the press, but of the two, JI has very obviously insulted more of his competitors and offered way more excuses. When Wightman won gold, who ran over and hugged him on the ground with a big smile on his face? Clue: it wasn't JI.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Kerr spoke in vague generalities. He claimed that everything was great ahead of the Worlds final, even though deep down he knew it wasn’t. Again fine, but I’d prefer honesty like him saying “my buildup has been bad, I’m not eating properly, and I just couldn’t get it together after the Olympics.”

Jakob says what he believes, he is honest. You seem to want to bury him for that. He was basically expressing “how can I crush Wightman and others all season and then blow it in the biggest race.” That is accountability, and I don’t get being offended by that. Jakob didn’t think Wightman was the better man in terms of fitness, and yet you want him to go PC and lie that he did.

At the core of this whole thing, is observers who don’t want honesty after a loss. They just want hollow platitudes, and PC answers. Also Monaco is now something to be mad about? I mean clearly he was sick before and it added context to why he was passive in the race and underperformed. And at World Indoors, why shouldn’t he reveal he had COVID? So did Beamish for instance. Excuses vs explanations is in the eye of the beholder.

unkilted wrote:

kiltedrunner wrote:

Nah I think you're reaching severely here. Saying you're sick immediately after 3 races you just lost (indoor world champs, world champs and Monaco 2021) *is* disrespectful of the winner. You're also rewriting history with this 'Kerr didn't address his poor 2022 until a year later' angle. I remember specifically Kerr addressing that he wasn't at the level he needed to be at in various interviews that year and saying things like 'I'm going to give it my all and see what happens'. I even remember him talking to BBC during CW games and leaving me with the distinct impression he was going to be nowhere near the podium. So quit the history rewrites. Whilst we're at it, Jakob did not take the loss to Wightman with much more dignity- you're acting like he gave some gracious speech. Whilst on that occasion he didn't blame illness, he did say something like "how can I be so good and yet so terrible?" in the immediate aftermath. Not 'he was the better man tonight' but 'he only won because I ran terribly'. Wightman would hardly be delighted with that assessment.

Essentially, neither of them are particularly nice or gracious in the press, but of the two, JI has very obviously insulted more of his competitors and offered way more excuses. When Wightman won gold, who ran over and hugged him on the ground with a big smile on his face? Clue: it wasn't JI.

To be fair, I would also celebrate my own countrymen after they won the world championships

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

kiltedrunner wrote:

PC? Jakob isn't 'sticking it to the man' by being sour and making excuses in the immediate aftermath of a loss. How minor would his excuse have to be before you admit that he's perhaps being a bit of a drama queen? A slightly sore throat? Nipple chafing? The 'non-PC' thing would be to give the press a "this isn't over', give Kerr the finger, and come back and dominate; bitching about a sniffle isn't edgy.

He didn't b*tch, he just said I was sick, not feeling my best and it's unfortunate. He's not sticking it to the man. That's your strawman (an argument not made by anyone) — he is just being honest. Again if you don't want the answer to be "what happened in the race?" or "what went wrong?" then don't ask him the question OR just ignore his answers. As far as "what happened in the race?" or "what went wrong?", it's kinda funny how I can only recall getting the honest answer to these questions from Josh Kerr after a good race (or one he didn't care about in the great scheme of things). I'm no Nordas fan, and think he can be delusional in his post-race commentary, but I still much prefer it to giving stock answers. I'd criticize Jakob like I do Nordas if his post-race stuff didn't seem to be genuine or was just absurd. But it seems to be as straightforward as possible. An example: I think he legit at 2022 Pre was disappointed nobody even tried to run with him — I know I was as a fan.

As for Jakob, after that 1500 final, he went out and won the 5,000 World Championship. He also went out to the DL Final for a challenging double that he had to ask to even make possible.

Actions speak louder than words — Kerr took offense to Jakob saying it was an off day and that Josh merely took advantage of it...by skipping the obvious next available rematch to run the 5th Avenue Mile instead of a 3:43 mile in Eugene. His explanations for all that were of course a load of nonsense. Again, give me Jakob 100 times out of 100 over Kerr's "I'm too tired to run the DL Final, but I just had to run the 5th Avenue Mile." No self-respecting person believed that.

kiltedrunner wrote:

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

He never said the loss doesn’t count. He actually in the moment explained why he wasn’t in shape to win the race. Which he believed was sickness.
Anyone interpreting it as “the loss doesn’t count” is looking to get upset over a guy simply explaining what he thinks happened. You can’t put words in his mouth and weird inferences from his comments and then talk about dumb logic. There’s some big rush to act like Jakob can’t admit when he’s lost, when in 2022 he literally owned up to screwing up the tactics and costing himself the race.

Nah I think you're reaching severely here. Saying you're sick immediately after 3 races you just lost (indoor world champs, world champs and Monaco 2021) *is* disrespectful of the winner. You're also rewriting history with this 'Kerr didn't address his poor 2022 until a year later' angle. I remember specifically Kerr addressing that he wasn't at the level he needed to be at in various interviews that year and saying things like 'I'm going to give it my all and see what happens'. I even remember him talking to BBC during CW games and leaving me with the distinct impression he was going to be nowhere near the podium. So quit the history rewrites. Whilst we're at it, Jakob did not take the loss to Wightman with much more dignity- you're acting like he gave some gracious speech. Whilst on that occasion he didn't blame illness, he did say something like "how can I be so good and yet so terrible?" in the immediate aftermath. Not 'he was the better man tonight' but 'he only won because I ran terribly'. Wightman would hardly be delighted with that assessment.

Essentially, neither of them are particularly nice or gracious in the press, but of the two, JI has very obviously insulted more of his competitors and offered way more excuses. When Wightman won gold, who ran over and hugged him on the ground with a big smile on his face? Clue: it wasn't JI.

direct quotations wrote:

I agree. Jakob is arrogant and that rubs a lot of people the wrong way, but he’s not a bullshtter. It’s also become the norm for posters here to mischaracterize his post-race interviews. How many people have actually listened to the stuff he said and not just parroted what they’ve read on the boards?

Belgrade '22: “That’s what’s so nice about fast 1500m finals, that the best runner that evening is usually the one on top. Tefera was better than me tonight. I thought I was better than him, of course, having run the record, so a little bit disappointed, but rivalry is a really nice thing for everybody.”

Eugene '22: “Because of the decisions I made and the attacks that caught me a little bit by surprise around 800, I spent too much energy fighting for my position at that point. And of course [Wightman] had a great race and didn’t spend energy the way I did, so good for him.”

”He’s a great guy and I’ve got a lot of respect for him, but mostly disappointed with me feeling like I didn’t do my best.”

”He should be proud of what he did. He deserves it, he’s putting in a lot of work and he’s obviously run fast in the past so kudos for him, but he also realizes that I didn’t reach my potential today. But that’s what it’s all about. It’s all about trying to do your best, but sometimes some people don’t. Some people get a good race all based on their decisions during the race.”

Budapest '23: “All credit to Kerr, he did a good race, but I feel a little bit unlucky being in this position.”

”Today was just not my day, so of course, frustrating for it be that way, but at the same time I don’t feel like I could’ve done much different. Kerr’s doing a good race and of course he gets the deserved victory all things considered, but of course I would’ve wished it to be a little bit different.”

Q: “Will it be a big deal for you to try to race Josh Kerr again, try and get some revenge?”
A: ”No. He was just the next guy. So it’s like if I hadn’t run in the final, he would probably have won. That’s how I see the race. Obviously if you stumble and fall, someone is gonna win the race. He was just the next guy.”

The notion that he just makes excuses and never acknowledges the guys who beat him is BS. And the “next guy” comment was clearly not meant to be an insult, anymore than Ollie’s “outclassed” comment was. Kerr had both of them quoted to him out of context which is probably why he took them as disrespect, but his tension with Jakob seems to predate Budapest. He was talking big after the Eugene semis and telling Jakob it would be a mistake to let it come down to a kick, and then after the final Jakob made the comment that Wightman is the more mature runner on the British team.