Ben Johnson says he thinks "nothing much has changed" in terms of doping and thinks it's actually gotten worse

Well, well......

What can I say?

I was there, in the orbit. There was always that air of secrecy about the top few people. It was a very tiny club, and the core of the onion seemed distant, and probably impenetrable. There was so much to do with a particular type of culture there, there was a lot of criminality in the broader community, a lot of sense of having an unfair disadvantage culturally because of recency of arrival, and therefore belonging to nothing and owing nothing to anyone, except one's closest family.

A lot of those qualities and more still persist depending on where you are---at least, the same perceptions exist, and there will always be someone who wants to exploit the resulting personality qualities, some "doctor" like Astaphan, or some Italian in Africa or Spain, or some other "doctor" in Jamaica, or Germany, or the southern US like Florida.

It's very much the same as recruiting someone into other types of crime, only this group of selects has a modicum of basic talent at, for instance, sprinting.

Although Ben seems to live in the past, imo he's right that almost nothing has changed. What has changed has been that while the power center used to be the USA, in certain areas that has changed, with the rise of the IAAF corruption under Diack, and events at the IOC. Unfortunately, what he is right about has just increased in scale and scope, to the point where there is no longer any higher authority to which to appeal. When the very highest levels are involved in the shenanigans, there is nothing to be done within that system.

In one sense, that makes for a level playing field among all the relevant players, kind of like the process of selecting where the next OG will be held. It becomes a business proposition of which franchise is to be favored, because of its ability to generate the greatest returns. Make no mistake it's ALL about money. "National pride" means ABSOLUTELY SQUAT. Now America with its athletic offerings has to compete with other places and their athletic offerings, and is only one player, although still a very significant one.

Americans buy a lot of Nike gear, but track itself is vastly more popular in Europe, and other brands like Adidas and Puma have a big presence there, especially in the soccer world--which actually dwarfs the US football and baseball worlds, worldwide. But yes Nike is making big inroads. Point is that the world is a lot bigger than just the USA, and TPTB in track know this. The whole thing is very much like a pro league, with WA/IOC as the Commish/governing body.

You might laugh at Ben, but believe me when I tell you that the people around him weren't exactly geniuses, no matter what their qualifications looked like on paper. And IMO that's STILL the case with at least the sprint world, and I have no reason to believe that mid-d or distance or field is any different. You could probably laugh equally well at any current high-level training group, if you knew any details.

The only thing that has changed is that the problem has become universal, much like the weapons and drug trade, the US dollar, etc. The world has gotten smaller, and at the highest levels has defaulted to the lowest common denominators-- base things like greed, violence, pride, etc. If you want to expand your power base (which is the only aim of these organizations), then you have to appeal to/work with the most universal/base qualities within your target subjects. Basic instinct law-of-the-jungle survival qualities.

So, you have to find another system in order to see authenticity. Want to experience real communication? Read an older book, forget about the web and texts and tweets. Want to eat real food? Grow it yourself or go to a farmer's market, forget about Whole Foods, Aldi, Kroger, Cargill, ADM, Tyson. Want to see a real track competition? Go watch a middle-school meet, forget about Diamond league and World champs and Olympics. It's always the same dynamic.

I don't watch much track anymore, either. In some ways it seems like all that stuff was so long ago, and watching now just seems anachronistic. I have moved on psychologically because I could, because I wasn't in the inner circle; Ben maybe hasn't because he was the focus of everything. Even me, who never really achieved anything in open track, I STILL work out at the track and go hard, and I guess I always will. I haven't moved on, physically speaking, because I really enjoy the hard training process and feeling. To have been in Ben's position and experienced what he did, who knows how you would view things and how you would get on with the rest of your life. Maybe there is a selection effect, people with what they see as their "one shot", and they make it their whole life, forever. Yeah I know Ben has other interests nowadays, and has for a long time, but he still seems embedded in a certain context forever, no matter what.

And wherever I go around the world, when people see me (the old guy) run or work out and start asking questions , maybe the convo comes around to the fact that I was with Optimist. The questions always center around Ben. Amazingly he is still an absolute hero and icon in much of the world, and now with anti-US sentiment rising, his popularity will probably only increase. Time marches on and newer generations have had Bolt as a focus, and IMO he remains the main guy. Even though he has been out forever now, there has been no effective replacement. This is why I always say there are only 3 eras: prehistory, BJ, and Bolt. We are still in the Bolt era, and might be for the rest of my life.

It's all scintillating, if you're a kid. If you're an adult, it's actually kind of boring, tbh. Last week I was working out at a D1/D3 gym, depending on program. I have a bit of medial epicondylitis which I can feel when grabbing a barbell to do squats, so I went on the leg press instead. During my warmup a bunch from the track team came and I let them work in. By the time I got up to 6 plates I attracted an audience. By the time I was doing 8, most of the gym stopped. I didn't even keep going to 10, I didn't like having my form examined by a bunch of people staring (from 5 feet away!), and with headphones blaring, I found I didn't want to have to tune things out in order to do what I normally do, and then potentially explain myself. The whole thing to me was boring, although later some guy told me he thought it was amazing, and very important to him. Things just change, and literally every year there is a new crop of kids who want to feel a part of something, and want to buy in. I couldn't care less.

I'm now the ambivalent old man, the curiosity--and Ben is even older, and even more of a curiosity. I guess it's kind of like being the girl in grade 7 with the big breasts, you really just want to be left alone and not pigeonholed for the one thing. I only experience it in college workout facilities, Ben gets it wherever he goes, all the time. I would be bored as f, with no easy way to avoid it all other than living like a monk.

My 2 cents.

Doping has to be worse because nowadays they have better shoes/superspikes, better recovery, better facilities, better supplements, faster tracks (see hardness level of 88' Seoul track compared with modern Mondo tracks) and plus, they aren't training like Ben did. Theyre lifting/ squatting and benching half of Ben Johnson PBs. And how many of them ran 9.79? Ben could have run 9.70 in Tokyo 1991, thats why he celebrated 10m early in Seoul. He knew there was more in the tank.

Thank you so much for such a great post. I was there on the edges of that orbit for a year in the early 80's. So much of what you said rings so true.

See this is why let'srun is absolutely garbage. A trash post like that gets huge number of upvotes and very few down votes. Carl Lewis and Michael Johnson may have doped but there is very little of any strong irrefutable evidence that they did. I Know Carl had his pseudoephedrine decongestant thing possibly covered up but.... come on. The dude didn't even lift weights, he was just an absolute freak Talent. And Michael Johnson was running 43 Point relay legs as a freshman in college.

Ben Johnson on the other hand started off as basically a nobody. And then he pumped himself so full of steroids that he ballooned up massively right before everyone's eyes and HIS eyes turned as yellow as the sun from liver malfunction. And he became world record holder

He was one of the clearest dopers of all time and later admitted all of the steroids he pumped into his system but of course claimed she was sabotaged when he finally got caught. He's an idiot. And yes so are most of the people that care what he has to say.

Maybe Carl and MJ doped too but we can't say for certain while we absolutely can say for certain about Ben Johnson. Don't get it twisted.

What a classic Sprint geezer post! And no I do not mean that even in a slightly good way. So many words, so little Clarity on what the hell his point is.

And of course so much of it really about himself. Talk about rambling and self-absorption.

why do we care what LetsRun thinks about doping? They still support Shelby "burriot" Houlhan

To quote Rojo: "as ofa lon teh"

A Jamaican-Canadian who just won gold in world record time.

That's who.

Ben was not like precious little Carl or Noah, that's for sure.

1. By what measure was Johnson "the worst doper in history"? Do you know hoe many people have been busted, and how many more got away with doping?

2. I care much, much more about a Olympic winner and WR breaker's opinion, doped or not, than I care about the uninformed inexperienced babbling of some unaccomplished twerp on LetsRun. You?

How many got busted right after settling a WR in an Olympic final? He took a dump on our sport in front of a world audience.

What he said that started this thread, is worthless and predictable.

Johnson is outlieing as he got busted a 2nd time and thus a life ban. He seems to have no standards and little intelligence and added to this his own admission that he does not follow the sport, his opinions seem pretty worthless. He was likely a half witted 10.1 or 10.2 100m guy without drugs. A nobody

The First Admission of Drug Abuse in the Olympics

Olympic Facts & Fables by Tom Ecker

Olympiad III St Louis 1904

The winner, Thomas Hicks, United States. His handlers had given him concoctions of brandy, raw egg whites, and strychnine several times during the final ten miles. This is the first documented case of drug use in the modern Olympic Games. Charles Lucas, Hick's handler wrote later: "The marathon race, from a medical standpoint demonstrated that drugs are of much benefit along the road."

Hicks was given brandy and strychnine with 8 miles to go, and after collapsing and begging to be allowed to quit, he was given more brandy and strychnine at the entrance of the stadium. He reached the finish line 6 minutes ahead of the 2nd place finisher and collapsed on the track. After a 4 day recovery, Hicks announced his retirement from running.

After the Olympics were over, Lucas wrote an emotional, angry and revealing condemnation of Fred Lorz, the runner who had hitched a ride during the marathon (discovered and disqualified before Hicks approached the finish line): "The greatest honor ever brought to American shores by an American athlete was robbed of its luster when Fred Lorz was hailed like a conquering hero by the American people.

The honor of winning the race was heaped upon this man who four miles out on the road, was running the last ounces of strength of body, kept in mechanical action by the use of drugs, that he might bring America the marathon honors."

The design/plan of cheaters who sometimes freely admit and justify it have been around for a long time and will never go away. Drugs weren't necessarily declared cheating formally in 1904 but assisted performance of any kind including catching a ride in a car was certainly not acceptable. Justifying drugs over a car ride was just comical. I am a better cheater so I should get by with it.

There's no doubt in my mind that Ben Johnson is able to say what everyone is thinking. People can bash him all they want to but that doesn't make him wrong. In the ancient Games, people were harshly punished and banned from returning to their homes with their names carved in stone at the original site in Athens. Certain people today are protected and will never be accused with proof to back it up. That part has not changed. Too much money at stake and I don't mean for the athletes.

Sprintgeezer is exactly right. The system is corrupt at the highest levels so why does it even matter? We are just burying our heads in the sand but "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?"

read the book "Speed Trap" by Charlie Francis-it gives great insight into that era of sprinting and how Francis was basically self-taught; he took a lot of the East Bloc methods in order to complete with the world's best...'roids or not Ben's race in Seoul was still the most dominating 100m win ever...

What do you think they're taking these days Jeff? With the ABP, anabolic steroids are going to be hard to use. The injectables glow for ever (I mean forever - like up to 6 months!) & even the orals can be detected over several weeks time (e.g, the metabolites of Winstrol can be detected for up to 3 weeks after the last dose). And HGH & the peptides (e.g., GHRP-2) can easily be detected for weeks after last use. And WADA has assays for all the SARMs being used out there.

Synthetic testosterone can only detected by the carbon isotope ratio test (CIR), which was utilized only when the athlete breached the T/E ratio of 4:1. However, with the ABP, WADA is now target testing with CIR any suspicion fluctuations observed with the testosterone ratio even if it doesn't breach the 4:1 ratio.

The same thing happened to Floyd Landis. 2nd tier pro sports are like junior high study hall...everyone's trying to get someone else in trouble.

Why would Usain Bolt, or any sprinter, use clenbuterol? I thought it was for weight loss. None of the sprinters have a problem with fatness.

I doubt Johnson has much interesting or useful to say. He has been ostracized by mainstream track for decades. Also, drugs have changed wildly since the crude, basic chemicals that he used in the 1980s. He probably has no insight.

Sprintgeezer, I do not understand your post. I mean, what are you trying to say? Why do you not care about young people admiring your form? What does that have to do with the subject of the post?

Ilona Slupianek ???