Do they get a free University degree in the US via an NCAA scholarship? In Australia University is not tied to sports like it is in the US, so they wouldn't get a free degree. The free US degree might be worth more than what they'd get paid as just another professional prospect in AUS.
I won't speak for what Aussie athletes want, but compared to the U.S. system, most talented Australian Runners are part of external running clubs when they are young, in addition to competing for their school in running competitions.
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You do realize that U.S. universities have many international students? U.S. universities are not just for Americans. The whole point of the college experience is bringing people from different backgrounds together to study and learn from each other.
You do realize NZ universities have many international students. NZ universities are not just for NZ'ers. The whole point of the college experience is bringing people from different backgrounds together to study and learn from each other AND PAY TRIPLE TUITION. AND PAY TRIPLE ROOM & BOARD.
You do realize that U.S. universities have many international students? U.S. universities are not just for Americans. The whole point of the college experience is bringing people from different backgrounds together to study and learn from each other.
There are quite a few taxpayers who don't like to see their state public universities give out scholarships to foreign students.
There are no taxpayers seeing that. Scholarships, athletic or academic, are funded from other sources, donors, athletic revenue, etc.
* Athletics and Cross Country are introduced to all students from a young age. Every school has a yearly Athletics and XC carnival. You don't have to sign up for it - every student is asked to compete. Being the XC champion or winning a T&F event becomes quite a prestigious thing within your school.
* Our club system allows junior athletes to compete against and train with seniors from a young age. There's a lot of mentoring, and coaches tend to be athletes themselves - rather than some random person/teacher, who may or may not know how to train young athletes.
The negatives:
* There isn't a very good pathway from junior to senior athletics in Australia (hence why so many go to the US). It's almost impossible for a 19 year old (who may have been winning junior championships) to then enter the senior ranks and have immediate success - let alone secure a shoe contract.
* We don't have anything that remotely resembles the NCAAs. Our club system is still very much an amateur competition, run by state organisations, who do a good job for the most part (some better than others), but with an emphasis on participation as much as top end talent.
You overlook the academic side. The NCAA is unique in that it seamlessly integrates academics and athletics. Furthermore, a degree from the US, even if not from a top-tier school, is generally really well viewed abroad. Why so many Aussies and Kiwis? I think it's just that they already speak English.
To your third question--you're bringing in talented, hardworking kids who will make a positive impact at school and likely beyond if they choose to stick in the states (see: most of the OAC, FoggDogg, etc). I'd say it's pretty good bang for your buck to attract foreign NCAA runners. It's not that different from attracting top-tier STEM talent from abroad.
To be honest, despite Little Athletics giving exposure to 90% of kids, then athletics/XC being part of school sports, Athletics is a minor and poorly supported sport in Australia. There are schools that are focussed on AFL, Rugby League, Rugby Union etc and giving out scholarships, but none doing likewise in Athletics. There is no club/career pathway post school for the random good athlete to continue with post school. There is virtually nil interest amongst general sporting followers for athletics. I have never seen people watch or heard them discuss athletics in a pub, or even at home, unless you are talking to the active athletes or families of them.
For most good athletes who also have ball skills, they will be recruited into those sports I listed, especially good distance runners into AFL, sprinters into Rugby League etc.
It is a no brainer that a gifted track runner, with little other talent elsewhere, would opt for USA if they wish to continue and focus on athletics, which has a handful of good groups.
To be honest, despite Little Athletics giving exposure to 90% of kids, then athletics/XC being part of school sports, Athletics is a minor and poorly supported sport in Australia. There are schools that are focussed on AFL, Rugby League, Rugby Union etc and giving out scholarships, but none doing likewise in Athletics. There is no club/career pathway post school for the random good athlete to continue with post school. There is virtually nil interest amongst general sporting followers for athletics. I have never seen people watch or heard them discuss athletics in a pub, or even at home, unless you are talking to the active athletes or families of them.
For most good athletes who also have ball skills, they will be recruited into those sports I listed, especially good distance runners into AFL, sprinters into Rugby League etc.
It is a no brainer that a gifted track runner, with little other talent elsewhere, would opt for USA if they wish to continue and focus on athletics, which has a handful of good groups.
I'm not sure which state you live in, but there definitely is a club system for athletes to continue on post-school in Victoria, NSW, South Australia and Tasmania - not to mention regular road races.
You're right about no one discussing athletics, but that's true for all Aussie sports outside of AFL, rugby, cricket and maybe horse racing. The demographic that frequents pubs is probably not the same as the one that's going to attend a cross-country race or a Vic Milers meet.
The point I was making was that Australia is pretty good at introducing kids to the sport. Talented athletes, at the very least, get exposed to the sport, and if they're interested, will receive good guidance from senior athletes. The system is much weaker for athletes entering the senior ranks, however, where, unless someone is extremely passionate and/or extremely talented, they're likely to lose interest. The NCAAs seems to have filled this gap for those that are talented enough to make it though.
I'm not sure which state you live in, but there definitely is a club system for athletes to continue on post-school in Victoria, NSW, South Australia and Tasmania - not to mention regular road races.
You're right about no one discussing athletics, but that's true for all Aussie sports outside of AFL, rugby, cricket and maybe horse racing. The demographic that frequents pubs is probably not the same as the one that's going to attend a cross-country race or a Vic Milers meet.
The point I was making was that Australia is pretty good at introducing kids to the sport. Talented athletes, at the very least, get exposed to the sport, and if they're interested, will receive good guidance from senior athletes. The system is much weaker for athletes entering the senior ranks, however, where, unless someone is extremely passionate and/or extremely talented, they're likely to lose interest. The NCAAs seems to have filled this gap for those that are talented enough to make it though.
Thanks, I am in Sydney and involved very closely in road and trail organisations for many years. I guess I was 'just making a point' re the pub crowd, but it isn't on the mind of the people. As an example, the Sydney OG ( where everyone apparently saw cathy win ;-) ), it would have ranked amongst the least knowledgeable crowds that those athletes performed before, which you could easily pick up from when and what the cheered at.
Besides that, yes there are clubs, but in a massive city like Sydney you can literally name them on one hand, then when you get the breakout star - latest Cam Myers (btw obviously not going to make it at cricket or footy)- where are they going to go to pursue their talent? How far can they go right here, what pathway, what career? He has even had to leave Sydney to go to Canberra, where many interstate athletes come together to give a concentrated competition.
I could go on, but Athletics has and will always be a novelty sport here
I'm not sure which state you live in, but there definitely is a club system for athletes to continue on post-school in Victoria, NSW, South Australia and Tasmania - not to mention regular road races.
You're right about no one discussing athletics, but that's true for all Aussie sports outside of AFL, rugby, cricket and maybe horse racing. The demographic that frequents pubs is probably not the same as the one that's going to attend a cross-country race or a Vic Milers meet.
The point I was making was that Australia is pretty good at introducing kids to the sport. Talented athletes, at the very least, get exposed to the sport, and if they're interested, will receive good guidance from senior athletes. The system is much weaker for athletes entering the senior ranks, however, where, unless someone is extremely passionate and/or extremely talented, they're likely to lose interest. The NCAAs seems to have filled this gap for those that are talented enough to make it though.
Thanks, I am in Sydney and involved very closely in road and trail organisations for many years. I guess I was 'just making a point' re the pub crowd, but it isn't on the mind of the people. As an example, the Sydney OG ( where everyone apparently saw cathy win ;-) ), it would have ranked amongst the least knowledgeable crowds that those athletes performed before, which you could easily pick up from when and what the cheered at.
Besides that, yes there are clubs, but in a massive city like Sydney you can literally name them on one hand, then when you get the breakout star - latest Cam Myers (btw obviously not going to make it at cricket or footy)- where are they going to go to pursue their talent? How far can they go right here, what pathway, what career? He has even had to leave Sydney to go to Canberra, where many interstate athletes come together to give a concentrated competition.
I could go on, but Athletics has and will always be a novelty sport here
Seemingly not as involved as you imply.
Cam Myers is not from Sydney. The only time he leaves Sydney is after collecting his payments from his faux Sydney club.
3. How do you feel about US taxpayer dollars being used on Oceania athletes when there are perfectly viable domestic (and in some cases, in-state talent)?
This comes up here all the time when the topic is foreign athletes in the NCAA. No tax dollars are used to pay for foreign athletes to go to school here. No tax dollars are used to pay for domestic athletes who get scholarships unless the athlete is going to a state school in the state in which s/he is a resident. Money for scholarships comes from money raised by the athletic departments (ticket sales, TV deals, conference revenue sharing, alumni and booster donations, etc.) or from student fees.
And on top of that all the big shoe brands don't care where kids come from as long as they (down the road) can get markable adult athletes from all parts of the world. Nothing sells products in country xyz as an athlete from xyz. So their interest is to sponsor as wide teams as possible in terms of origins.
I'm not sure which state you live in, but there definitely is a club system for athletes to continue on post-school in Victoria, NSW, South Australia and Tasmania - not to mention regular road races.
You're right about no one discussing athletics, but that's true for all Aussie sports outside of AFL, rugby, cricket and maybe horse racing. The demographic that frequents pubs is probably not the same as the one that's going to attend a cross-country race or a Vic Milers meet.
The point I was making was that Australia is pretty good at introducing kids to the sport. Talented athletes, at the very least, get exposed to the sport, and if they're interested, will receive good guidance from senior athletes. The system is much weaker for athletes entering the senior ranks, however, where, unless someone is extremely passionate and/or extremely talented, they're likely to lose interest. The NCAAs seems to have filled this gap for those that are talented enough to make it though.
Thanks, I am in Sydney and involved very closely in road and trail organisations for many years. I guess I was 'just making a point' re the pub crowd, but it isn't on the mind of the people. As an example, the Sydney OG ( where everyone apparently saw cathy win ;-) ), it would have ranked amongst the least knowledgeable crowds that those athletes performed before, which you could easily pick up from when and what the cheered at.
Besides that, yes there are clubs, but in a massive city like Sydney you can literally name them on one hand, then when you get the breakout star - latest Cam Myers (btw obviously not going to make it at cricket or footy)- where are they going to go to pursue their talent? How far can they go right here, what pathway, what career? He has even had to leave Sydney to go to Canberra, where many interstate athletes come together to give a concentrated competition.
I could go on, but Athletics has and will always be a novelty sport here
I'd assume he'll do what Stewy, Brett and all the Melbourne Track Club athletes do. Receive a wage from a shoe sponsor, along with performance bonuses.
He'll spend 9 months of the year in Australia (where he'll compete in the domestic season), and then base himself in Europe throughout the summer, in order to secure championship qualifying times/points. The path is fairly well laid out for an athlete as talented as Myers (though he'll obviously never make as much as a footballer). The problems arise in the tier below him; guys and gals that won't be capable of making teams until they're in their late-twenties (if ever). The competition is definitely better in Melbourne for such athletes though - where there's seemingly an AthsVic event or high level road race every week.
Banana Bender with an axe to grind when Mottram or non-MTC clubs pop up? Amusing.
Athletes in AUS pick the US College system for many reasons, as others mentioned - it can function as a 4 year support system of professional resources and races (with a degree). That sort of racing doesn't exist year round in AUS.
Banana Bender with an axe to grind when Mottram or non-MTC clubs pop up? Amusing.
Athletes in AUS pick the US College system for many reasons, as others mentioned - it can function as a 4 year support system of professional resources and races (with a degree). That sort of racing doesn't exist year round in AUS.
What are you talking about?
I can see positives in many squads in Australia, it's quite obvious who are the contributors, and who are the parasites.
Contrary to what some people think, coaches don't need to be narcissistic sociopaths to lead their athletes to success.
Thanks, I am in Sydney and involved very closely in road and trail organisations for many years. I guess I was 'just making a point' re the pub crowd, but it isn't on the mind of the people. As an example, the Sydney OG ( where everyone apparently saw cathy win ;-) ), it would have ranked amongst the least knowledgeable crowds that those athletes performed before, which you could easily pick up from when and what the cheered at.
Besides that, yes there are clubs, but in a massive city like Sydney you can literally name them on one hand, then when you get the breakout star - latest Cam Myers (btw obviously not going to make it at cricket or footy)- where are they going to go to pursue their talent? How far can they go right here, what pathway, what career? He has even had to leave Sydney to go to Canberra, where many interstate athletes come together to give a concentrated competition.
I could go on, but Athletics has and will always be a novelty sport here
Seemingly not as involved as you imply.
Cam Myers is not from Sydney. The only time he leaves Sydney is after collecting his payments from his faux Sydney club.
Many private universities subsidize the athletic department from the academic side. Federal loans also indirectly subsidize the university. Only a few private universities that can say they are close to not being federal supported, like Hillsdale.
Many private universities subsidize the athletic department from the academic side. Federal loans also indirectly subsidize the university. Only a few private universities that can say they are close to not being federal supported, like Hillsdale.
All true. But none of this involves taxpayers funding scholarships of any kind.
I am genuinely curious if this is a workaround that programs can use to stock their teams. When I was an undergraduate, most foreign students that I knew were studying in the US on a cultural exchange or a needed skills program. Their country’s ministry of education or culture was footing the bill and expected that they would return home with skills that could not be obtained in their own country.
If someone from Nigeria was an engineering student on a government scholarship and also happened to be a 10.0/20.0 sprinter, could a school like Georgia or Texas sign them for nothing against their scholarship limits since Nigeria is paying their bills? Would it make sense for a developing nation without good facilities or coaches to send their best to develop here? Does the NCAA care who pays so long as it doesn’t come from the official athletic scholarship pool? If they don’t, it seems like a coach with connections could load up on foreign talent for free while only spending on domestic recruits or just not recruiting Americans at all. I’m suspicious when I see college teams that only have 12.6 scholarships to give but have a 50 strong roster with over half of them from other nations.
Yes, I think you have it basically right. From what I understand, a big part of the reason the Arkansas teams of the 80s and 90s were so good was because John McDonnell was better at getting guys on non-athletic scholarships than other schools. If you know your way around the various pots of aid money, you can get way more than 12.6 guys on scholarship.