Yep...it's age-related low/insufficient testosterone levels that cause havoc on recovery from hard workouts.
I'm 62 & haven't competed in running for several years now because of post-traumatic OA, but I'll hit one day a week of hard intervals (pain permitting). It's also about 4 or so days before I feel recovered. I'll be limping for a day or two afterwards & my whole body aches from waist down for several days. I'm a sad sight for sore eyes. Lol.
I have a friend from the gym who's 58 & bodybuilds as well as does some non-competitive running. He's also on TRT & looks like Hercules with good mass & low BF (he's increased his testosterone levels to that of his peak youth levels). On occasion, he'll join me for my intervals & not only does he smoke me but he's near fully recovered the next day (the guy is bigger than at 5-9 185 - I'm 5-7, 175). And the guy works 7 days a week & recovers from like a 20 yr old.
I didn't realize just how powerful the testosterone is.
Testosterone is golden hormone for men.
Works pretty good for woman also.😋 Yeah doping works...
I think it is real easy to overdue stuff because it is easy to remember when 16*400 at 75s pace was a 5k workout. These days it is closer to 800m pace. I don't avoid all out sprinting . I do limit it. This like 4*15s up a hill where I slowly ramp up over both the rep and across reps. Only the last couple are close to max.
I suspect boosting the system with testosterone (apart from side effects and it being 'doping' for competitive masters) will also lead to eventually running harder than aging connective tissue can handle.
It's like putting a big engine in an aging chassis that can no longer handle it.
Age 61: I have to do shorter/faster intervals (200, 400, 800) at least one day per week to keep up some level of speed.
I'm very cautious about the volume (less is almost always better), and I don't run another interval until my pulse returns to 125 bpm. I err on the side of caution. It takes so long to recover now if I get an injury.
In short, fewer intervals but high quality works pretty well for me.
Age 66: Similiar. Weekly quality with focus on neuro muscular while minimizing impact damage and metabolic stress. For example 4x30 second with 4 minute recoveries on treadmill 10percent grade at 10mph. This is close to an all out effort. Also I can adjust the grade or speed or time based upon how I am feeling but I get it in. The older you get the quicker you lose strength. So frequency is key. Recovery limits frequency. Damage extends recovery time. You do the math;)
not sure where you are getting the idea that hard intervals days should be behind you...but here is a little contrary info for you.
Bob Lida (world recording holder in various sprint events) would often do hill repeats and indoor 150's even into his 80's.
Perhaps the reason he didn't lose his speed is because he did not listen to the experts and continues to do speed workouts. Obviously you have to be smart when doing speed, but that is true at any age. Gradually building into the workout works best for me.
I agree 100% with CoyoteMontane. Same basic principles. For context, I'll be 63 in two weeks. I just recently ran my only race this year, an 18:08 5k. I've gotten there with 60-63 mile weeks, which is made up of a 10-13 mile long run and a weekly tempo. I'll add some sort of occasional shorter speed session when I'm not feeling overly tired. Very minimal and very random. This spring I've done a couple of 4-5 threshold 1000 & 800 workouts, and a couple shorter CV workouts. And some occasional strides. Again, very minimal amounts of speed work! I've found it doesn't take much. I did notice today the Masters Road Mile champs are June 24 and within driving distance for me. So I may need to add some faster shorter stuff just to say I tried! And FWIW I had Achilles Tenex surgery on 10-15-2020. So to get back to being somewhat competitive has been a long slow process.
Wow, that's pretty interesting and also disappointing. The thread starter is a registered user (jirkal) too. :(
Weird thing is there have been several threads like this recently where the OPs only follow-up response is "I got this." Really weird that someone would get their kick of doing that.
Hello, fellow masters runners (54/M here, 25 miles/week on 4 days per week). I'm wondering if any of you do any truly hard, gut-busting, lung-heaving intervals like you did in your younger years. From what I've read, those days should be long behind us, but I'm not so sure about that. I think there's still a place for them, as long as we proceed cautiously. The most "all-out" interval work I've done in the past few weeks is diagonals on a soccer pitch for 10-15 minutes (run fast from corner flag to opposite corner flag, with slow jog across the pitch, repeat). I started at 5k pace then built to mile pace toward the end of the session. It was tough, but not brutal. I think I have more in me, but all the advice I've read advises against it. What do you fellow masters runners think? Have you had any success with truly all-out intervals (i.e. 10x400m @ mile pace with 200m jog), or did you regret it?
I was in good shape when I was 46 and ran 4:29 1500, 17:23 5k on the track. I had a couple of injuries more to do with age and I gained some weight and so now I am trying to get back into shape.
My feeling is that you could do speed if you worked into it. I would start with 4-6 strides about 50-70 yards once a week and then try to get them gradually faster and longer in a way that you won't hurt yourself. If you follow the pyramid approach you would pick a race time say 90 days out and then work to more specific speed to your race for example 200s if you are targeting a mile.
I think if it were me I would be more focused on getting more distance in like 40-50 miles per week. The problem with intervals is that they take more recovery time and so then you spend so much time doing short recovery runs instead of building endurance. Do some fartlegs in the trails with hills and do it by how your body feels--2 Easy 2 Medium 2 Easy 2 Fast. Do something like that once a week. The biggest bang for the buck is to improve the tempo. If you don't have trails you can do same thing on track using quarters. During HS age 400s were the in vogue but I personally think they are boring and there are a million better workouts. If I were to do 400s I would structure it but starting out running them at tempo and then gradually increasing speed on them 1-2 seconds per interval. My favorite track workout is alternating 200s with 200 at 5k pace and then 200 at subtempo (40 seconds/50 seconds). We did this for 5k. I still do this on occasion but I'm only at 2 miles worth. I also have a loop with hill nearby where I can 200 on a hill and then loop back to the beginning. I haven't actually started that one this time around but it's a good workout if you can handle it.
There is some value in speed in terms of your neurological system and also that along with calisthenics can build core. But I think I would focus less on this than trying to build base improving ability to run at threshold. My guess is you can get at least 90 percent of what you need from focusing on the latter.
I agree 100% with CoyoteMontane. Same basic principles. For context, I'll be 63 in two weeks. I just recently ran my only race this year, an 18:08 5k. I've gotten there with 60-63 mile weeks, which is made up of a 10-13 mile long run and a weekly tempo. I'll add some sort of occasional shorter speed session when I'm not feeling overly tired. Very minimal and very random. This spring I've done a couple of 4-5 threshold 1000 & 800 workouts, and a couple shorter CV workouts. And some occasional strides. Again, very minimal amounts of speed work! I've found it doesn't take much. I did notice today the Masters Road Mile champs are June 24 and within driving distance for me. So I may need to add some faster shorter stuff just to say I tried! And FWIW I had Achilles Tenex surgery on 10-15-2020. So to get back to being somewhat competitive has been a long slow process.
Dave
That 18:08 is impressive. I'm 62 and do intervals but probably shouldn't ... at this point. Don't think I really have enough mileage in to support it. I struggle to maintain 50mpw, not due to injuries but due to life circumstances. I'm still able to run for the most part injury and niggle-free. The intervals I do are done at moderate to low intensity levels. Consistency in that base mileage is much, much more important than intervals. IMHO, of course.
I agree 100% with CoyoteMontane. Same basic principles. For context, I'll be 63 in two weeks. I just recently ran my only race this year, an 18:08 5k. I've gotten there with 60-63 mile weeks, which is made up of a 10-13 mile long run and a weekly tempo. I'll add some sort of occasional shorter speed session when I'm not feeling overly tired. Very minimal and very random. This spring I've done a couple of 4-5 threshold 1000 & 800 workouts, and a couple shorter CV workouts. And some occasional strides. Again, very minimal amounts of speed work! I've found it doesn't take much. I did notice today the Masters Road Mile champs are June 24 and within driving distance for me. So I may need to add some faster shorter stuff just to say I tried! And FWIW I had Achilles Tenex surgery on 10-15-2020. So to get back to being somewhat competitive has been a long slow process.
Dave
Do tell….Where are the Masters Road Mile Champs in June? Cant seem to find it.
I agree 100% with CoyoteMontane. Same basic principles. For context, I'll be 63 in two weeks. I just recently ran my only race this year, an 18:08 5k. I've gotten there with 60-63 mile weeks, which is made up of a 10-13 mile long run and a weekly tempo. I'll add some sort of occasional shorter speed session when I'm not feeling overly tired. Very minimal and very random. This spring I've done a couple of 4-5 threshold 1000 & 800 workouts, and a couple shorter CV workouts. And some occasional strides. Again, very minimal amounts of speed work! I've found it doesn't take much. I did notice today the Masters Road Mile champs are June 24 and within driving distance for me. So I may need to add some faster shorter stuff just to say I tried! And FWIW I had Achilles Tenex surgery on 10-15-2020. So to get back to being somewhat competitive has been a long slow process.
Dave
Do tell….Where are the Masters Road Mile Champs in June? Cant seem to find it.
Hello, fellow masters runners (54/M here, 25 miles/week on 4 days per week). I'm wondering if any of you do any truly hard, gut-busting, lung-heaving intervals like you did in your younger years. From what I've read, those days should be long behind us, but I'm not so sure about that. I think there's still a place for them, as long as we proceed cautiously. The most "all-out" interval work I've done in the past few weeks is diagonals on a soccer pitch for 10-15 minutes (run fast from corner flag to opposite corner flag, with slow jog across the pitch, repeat). I started at 5k pace then built to mile pace toward the end of the session. It was tough, but not brutal. I think I have more in me, but all the advice I've read advises against it. What do you fellow masters runners think? Have you had any success with truly all-out intervals (i.e. 10x400m @ mile pace with 200m jog), or did you regret it?
I was in good shape when I was 46 and ran 4:29 1500, 17:23 5k on the track. I had a couple of injuries more to do with age and I gained some weight and so now I am trying to get back into shape.
My feeling is that you could do speed if you worked into it. I would start with 4-6 strides about 50-70 yards once a week and then try to get them gradually faster and longer in a way that you won't hurt yourself. If you follow the pyramid approach you would pick a race time say 90 days out and then work to more specific speed to your race for example 200s if you are targeting a mile.
I think if it were me I would be more focused on getting more distance in like 40-50 miles per week. The problem with intervals is that they take more recovery time and so then you spend so much time doing short recovery runs instead of building endurance. Do some fartlegs in the trails with hills and do it by how your body feels--2 Easy 2 Medium 2 Easy 2 Fast. Do something like that once a week. The biggest bang for the buck is to improve the tempo. If you don't have trails you can do same thing on track using quarters. During HS age 400s were the in vogue but I personally think they are boring and there are a million better workouts. If I were to do 400s I would structure it but starting out running them at tempo and then gradually increasing speed on them 1-2 seconds per interval. My favorite track workout is alternating 200s with 200 at 5k pace and then 200 at subtempo (40 seconds/50 seconds). We did this for 5k. I still do this on occasion but I'm only at 2 miles worth. I also have a loop with hill nearby where I can 200 on a hill and then loop back to the beginning. I haven't actually started that one this time around but it's a good workout if you can handle it.
There is some value in speed in terms of your neurological system and also that along with calisthenics can build core. But I think I would focus less on this than trying to build base improving ability to run at threshold. My guess is you can get at least 90 percent of what you need from focusing on the latter.
I found I could alternate EIM (Easy Interval Method) with 3/4 mile recovery runs at about 8:00-8:15 per mile, so that I was getting some decent quality every other day.
Was able to run about 11:30 3000m and 19:49 5k on road at 65 with that formula, which I was happy with.
Why is it spam if someone asks the same question in two places? Maybe it's a content creator getting ideas for content.
The copied questions are often several years old. Then the "I've got this" reply quotes the original post and places a link to another site in the middle. Some of the links have been to porn sites. That's why it's spam.
M60 here - I stopped doing any short 200m/300m intervals except at the end of a cutdown workout. Been running consistently since 1998. Noticed even running 40 miles/week vs. 60+/week, I gained 10 lbs the last 5 years. Trying to regain the speed by eating less (soup for lunch) and upping the intensity more either on the tempo or longer track intervals. …. Long runs up to 15 miles at 8min./mile. Want to drop more weight before cranking up the speed on the tempo runs….. I came from the school “motion is lotion”. If I am not feeling it, I won’t do a track workout but get time on my feet in. I was never an anaerobic runner so I tended to error on the side of adding more miles vs. higher intensity……
Good point as to type of runner iow mix of muscle fiber type. More fast twitch more speed less endurance stuff . More slow twitch less speed work more endurance stuff. Earl Fee vs Ed Whitlock Speed vs Endurance. Of course lots of gray area in the middle. What I am sure of is I see old runners who do a LOT of endurance stuff lose muscle and can only shuffle
