We changed the title to make it more accuarte. Initially the title of the thread was, "HS Coach has his own athlete DQ'd". Please note the athlete ran the mile under protest and finished high enough to qualify to states if him being scratched is overturned.
He started with a 9:53 (so 30 secs worse than his PB in the 3200) and ended with a 4:37 (20 sec worse than his PB in the 1600, to finish 4th). So maybe he was trying and just having a bad meet. We would expect in the 800 hed probably be about 10 sec off his PB, given how tough he was going in this meet. That would be nearly a 2:08. So not really much different than what he ran here to be honest.
If the coach said, man you look rough in this heat (30 sec off your PB in the 3200, and 13 sec off in the 800, and it looks like its going down hill) I want to scratch you for your safety, you can continue your season in the 3200, I'd say yeah that's reasonable. Scratching him for "not trying hard enough" when the evidence shows he was just struggling with the heat accross all events is insane.
Struggling with the heat? 1) He won the 3200 and 2) By finishing top 4 in the 1600, he ran fast enough to go to the next round (if the scratch is nullified).
It looks like nearly everyone on here is siding with the athlete. I'd need to know more about it.
Think of it this way. Your college coach says, "I need you to run 10k and 5k at conference." You say, "No I ony want to run 5k." Coach reiterates, "We have a shot for top 2 finish. I need you to double."
You then jog the 10k. Coach pulls you from the meet. Would everyone immediately side with the athlete?
I will always side with protecting the health and well being of an athlete.
I don't know enough about the situation to comment what is right or wrong. It could be that everybody is wrong.
But one thing i know for sure is that if the head coach scratches you from an event, the kid should not be going to the line to try to race and the assistant coach should not be supporting that.
they are 100% wrong for that, even if the head coach is the biggest @ss in the world
I don't know enough about the situation to comment what is right or wrong. It could be that everybody is wrong.
But one thing i know for sure is that if the head coach scratches you from an event, the kid should not be going to the line to try to race and the assistant coach should not be supporting that.
they are 100% wrong for that, even if the head coach is the biggest @ss in the world
Maybe we should normalize not racing distance kids 3-4 times per meet.
To me, an important part of this story is that the distance coach stuck up for him against the head coach. In high school, there are many head track and field coaches that know jack sh!t about track and field. My high school distance coach knew 100x more about track and field than the head coach.
I don't know enough about the situation to comment what is right or wrong. It could be that everybody is wrong.
But one thing i know for sure is that if the head coach scratches you from an event, the kid should not be going to the line to try to race and the assistant coach should not be supporting that.
they are 100% wrong for that, even if the head coach is the biggest @ss in the world
I don't know enough about the situation to comment what is right or wrong. It could be that everybody is wrong.
But one thing i know for sure is that if the head coach scratches you from an event, the kid should not be going to the line to try to race and the assistant coach should not be supporting that.
they are 100% wrong for that, even if the head coach is the biggest @ss in the world
^^^^^^This 100%
Why?
This is how and why bullies think they can act the way they do.
This is how and why bullies think they can act the way they do.
This is how sports work. The coach puts in the lineup. The coach takes players out. THe coach makes substitutions. one person is in charge. if that person does a poor job, they should be evaluated and consequences handed out after.
if you can't handle authority, find another way to accomplish your goals. this is real life
If the coach had brains and read Letsrun, he would have run his DQ schtick before the 800 and gotten a coveted Pure Hate performance out of the kid. Sub-2:00 for sure..
But one thing i know for sure is that if the head coach scratches you from an event, the kid should not be going to the line to try to race and the assistant coach should not be supporting that.
I think this is part of the problem. From what I understand the male coach is the "Head Boys Coach" and the female is the "Head Girls Coach." Neither is an assistant to the other; both are head coaches. He coaches all of the sprinters and jumpers, both male and female; she coaches all of the distance runners, male and female.
The particular runner really only falls under the authority of the male coach as a member of the boys team. Beyond taking accountability at the start of practice, the male coach probably almost never sees this runner. The female coach, on the other hand, plans the runner's training, works with him on a daily basis, and probably decides what events he runs during meets. She also is the Head Cross Country Coach so she works with this particular runner all year long. My guess is the runner has a lot more loyalty to her than to his actual head coach.
Having him triple up in the distance events in the heat in in this type of meet is the real crime. I’m guessing that decision was made by the head coach for points, not understanding that an athlete doing three distance events is not the same as an athlete doing three sprint events. I don’t fault the kid for dogging the 800.
Distance doubling up I can understand, no problem. Tripling up or quadrupling up in a low key meet or a dual meet is fine too for workout purposes. But the only way a distance runner should be tripling up in a state or state qualifying meet especially in the extreme heat is if the coach allowed the athlete input on that decision as well.
But one thing i know for sure is that if the head coach scratches you from an event, the kid should not be going to the line to try to race and the assistant coach should not be supporting that.
I think this is part of the problem. From what I understand the male coach is the "Head Boys Coach" and the female is the "Head Girls Coach." Neither is an assistant to the other; both are head coaches. He coaches all of the sprinters and jumpers, both male and female; she coaches all of the distance runners, male and female.
The particular runner really only falls under the authority of the male coach as a member of the boys team. Beyond taking accountability at the start of practice, the male coach probably almost never sees this runner. The female coach, on the other hand, plans the runner's training, works with him on a daily basis, and probably decides what events he runs during meets. She also is the Head Cross Country Coach so she works with this particular runner all year long. My guess is the runner has a lot more loyalty to her than to his actual head coach.
But one thing i know for sure is that if the head coach scratches you from an event, the kid should not be going to the line to try to race and the assistant coach should not be supporting that.
I think this is part of the problem. From what I understand the male coach is the "Head Boys Coach" and the female is the "Head Girls Coach." Neither is an assistant to the other; both are head coaches. He coaches all of the sprinters and jumpers, both male and female; she coaches all of the distance runners, male and female.
The particular runner really only falls under the authority of the male coach as a member of the boys team. Beyond taking accountability at the start of practice, the male coach probably almost never sees this runner. The female coach, on the other hand, plans the runner's training, works with him on a daily basis, and probably decides what events he runs during meets. She also is the Head Cross Country Coach so she works with this particular runner all year long. My guess is the runner has a lot more loyalty to her than to his actual head coach.
If I was coaching the distance guy, I would have gone up to him and tried to teach him.
"I'm not happy you have to triple either. But ultimately, it's not my call. Sometimes in life, your boss will mandate you do somethig you don't want to do. This is one of those times."
The distance coach, Samantha Gerrits, coached the boy XC team to the state title as a first-year coach. She is a former 5:00+ marathoner who recently ran 3:28 at Houston and took 3rd overall at the Space Coast Marathon.
She didn't exactly "coach" them to a state title. She inherited a team that was heavily favored to win thanks to the efforts of the former coach.
That said, she did a good thing by sticking up for Aedan.
Talented teams present their own unique coaching challenges.
Coaching a bunch of 25 minute 5K runners is easy. Any consistent running is going to lead to improvement. It's pretty hard to make training mistakes. Whether they improve by 2 minutes or 4 minutes isn't going to make a difference in winning a championship or landing on the podium.
Runners competing at or near their full potential is a little tougher. Training mistakes can lead to performance stagnation or regression. A runner or two not running at their potential, even by seconds can cost a team championship or podium spots.
He started with a 9:53 (so 30 secs worse than his PB in the 3200) and ended with a 4:37 (20 sec worse than his PB in the 1600, to finish 4th). So maybe he was trying and just having a bad meet. We would expect in the 800 hed probably be about 10 sec off his PB, given how tough he was going in this meet. That would be nearly a 2:08. So not really much different than what he ran here to be honest.
If the coach said, man you look rough in this heat (30 sec off your PB in the 3200, and 13 sec off in the 800, and it looks like its going down hill) I want to scratch you for your safety, you can continue your season in the 3200, I'd say yeah that's reasonable. Scratching him for "not trying hard enough" when the evidence shows he was just struggling with the heat accross all events is insane.
Struggling with the heat? 1) He won the 3200 and 2) By finishing top 4 in the 1600, he ran fast enough to go to the next round (if the scratch is nullified).
It looks like nearly everyone on here is siding with the athlete. I'd need to know more about it.
Think of it this way. Your college coach says, "I need you to run 10k and 5k at conference." You say, "No I ony want to run 5k." Coach reiterates, "We have a shot for top 2 finish. I need you to double."
You then jog the 10k. Coach pulls you from the meet. Would everyone immediately side with the athlete?
This isn't college. It's a public high school.
In college there's a choice, the athlete chose the school. The athlete may be receiving financial consideration. In public high school, there is no choice.
Assuming, the runner didn't give it his all. (and we don't know which coach did the entries and if/when/how it was conveyed to the runner. Not do we know for certain what happened during the 800) What is the appropriate punishment?
He didn't follow a school staff directions, should he get a suspension? detention? ban from walking at graduation? kicked off the team? scratched from the 3200 the next meet? banned from competing in his best event he worked towards for 4 years?
Should jaywalkers face the same penalties as bank robbers?
It seems to me he jaywalked and got the bank robbery sentence.
If points are so important, why give a punishment that prevents the team from getting points.
Like I said before,I don't see the point of taking a hard line on a high schooler in the last weeks of his high school. It seems more like bullying and less like coaching
I don't know enough about the situation to comment what is right or wrong. It could be that everybody is wrong.
But one thing i know for sure is that if the head coach scratches you from an event, the kid should not be going to the line to try to race and the assistant coach should not be supporting that.
they are 100% wrong for that, even if the head coach is the biggest @ss in the world
Maybe we should normalize not racing distance kids 3-4 times per meet.
Hobbs Kessler tripled at the MI State Championships. 4x8, 1600, 800. Kessler and literally every other top high school athlete in history have tripled to help their team. Why does this 4:17 scrub from FL think he's more special than Kessler?
Ron Warhurst approves of the triple, I trust him more than all these arm-chair quarterbacks.
Like I said before,I don't see the point of taking a hard line on a high schooler in the last weeks of his high school. It seems more like bullying and less like coaching
Anyone who thinks this is "bullying" clearly wasn't bullied enough in high school. Yyou need to toughen up.
This is a coach making a playing-time decision. It's the equivalent of a basketball player getting benched for taking a 3 instead of passing for an open layup.
I have to say this thread is pretty surprising. Normally LetsRun falls on the side of “being tough” to a fault. (Cue another “back in the 80’s” story). But this thread is overwhelmingly on the side of an athlete- An athlete who essentially was refusing to compete. I get both sides- I’m just stating it’s very odd this thread is so one-sided.
I tripled fairly often in high school and it was usually hot. My coaches would’ve been pretty pissed if I deliberately chose to jog a race- especially in a scored meet. And I had amazing coaches.
Refusing to compete (assuming he wasn’t hurt or just had a really really insanely bad race) isn’t the mark of a champion- or even a “great” athlete. I get the arguments for not tripling, but that’s all discussions you have BEFORE the meet. And ultimately, if you are healthy and your coach says to race, you race. Even if the coach is a complete clown, it’s still pretty disrespectful to simply not compete in a race you were instructed to run. (I understand todays culture doesn’t really believe in “respect” if it’s not earned or whatever, but still.)
*I’m not really on the coach’s side as the whole thing seems weird and him arguing on the starting line just seems odd. And there was obviously some lack of communication/respect between the coach and athlete which I put mostly on the coach because he’s the adult. But as a competitor, I can’t give this kid a pass IF he intentionally jogged the 800 AND knew beforehand he was supposed to race it (Maybe he was sick or hurt, or the distance coach said he was only running the 16/32 and then the other coach entered him in all 3 anyways without telling them…. idk- I won’t make judgements without knowing the fully story). But I’m just saying if you’re healthy, fit, and have been clearly instructed to do something, then just compete. Be a competitor.
I've been there as an athlete. I did the 3200m, 1600m, 3000m steeplechase, and 4 x 800m in a single day at least twice.
Probably scored between 34-38 points. I wish I had said something back when I was competing. Twice a week every week during track season it was 3 or 4 races "for the team". I should have drawn my line in the sand with the coach - two races max or I'm not getting on the bus.
Over racing is abuse. Making distance runners race in the Florida heat is abuse. Making a scene at the start line is abuse. Don't try to hide and say it's for the team.
Today I coach my own kids. If they run the 3000m that's their only race that day. If they run the 1500m they might come back with the 800m or something shorter to get a little speed work in.